Espionage is in!

[Paradigm]

Since a flawed combat system can directly result in players unfairly being knocked out of the game, it is more important.

[Magus666]

Since a flawed combat system can directly result in players unfairly being knocked out of the game, it is more important.

 

More important than a player who is "unfairly" knocked out the game because he chose to depend on espionage, the favor of the gods, or anything else that doesnt work, instead of "more ships, more guns"? Explain that logic please. Players who choose the path of war are more important than those who dont?

 

Oh, and incidentally, thank you for proving my point.

[Krysia's Krusader]

Magus666;

 

You've been playing the game for a little over 3 months. How many turns is that - 7?

 

How do you know what, if any besides you're emperor, a character actually does in game, since you haven't experienced it yet?

 

Trying to make the game what you want it to be, while it is not that type of game, certainly won't get RTG to change the whole system.

 

Learn and experience what the game is like (and about), then make a judgement on it concerning wether you'd like to keep playing it or not.

 

Just some freindly advice...

[Prospective]

Believe me Magus, I'd love to see SN turn into a game that is more than space combat and industry output. It would be great to have a game where you can choose REALLY DISTINCT paths, be a sneaky bugger and rule through intrigues and subterfuge. It would rock to be able to choose the path of a pirate and be able to capture and plunder ships of my enemies. Or go the whole religious indoctrination route and expand as a holy empire. I would love to send out explorers to search through long dead worlds and do more than get a starmap, a tech hit or a number of trinkets. Or come across unsuspecting neutrals and have it worth my while to actually do something with them.

 

However, that unfortunately is not what this game is. It has the potential to evolve into that type of a game. But, as it stands now, (no offense to Pete and RTG) it's a game that is relatively one dimensional. You have the choice to colonize and increase your industrial might to build ships to be able to expand and increase your industrial might and vanquish others. Or, you can skip colonies and concentrate on research and build your industrial might on the homeworld and be a turtle and improve your homeworld and eventually spring forth and take over your enemies. Or you can get all agressive fight everyone you see to expand your industrial might so you can build more ships to take out enemies.

 

That's pretty much it though. There is no way to pirate, you cannot be an empire of spies with special mental powers and cloaked ships, nor a religious juggernaut teamed up with your god to vanquish thine enemies. Am I disappointed in that... sure. This game has the potential to be so much more. And, maybe someday this will be developed. I really hope it is. But the reality is that RTG has not developed those aspects of the game for whatever reasons (time I suspect is the primary reason, but I have no insight on how Russ/Pete spend a typical workweek and do not know how much time they put into developing new aspects of the game).

 

You sum it up pretty well. It's a question each PLAYER has to ask... is this what you want? If the answer is no, then stop playing and look elsewhere, perhaps there is something out there that meets your needs. If the answer is yes, then enjoy the game for what it is, continue with offering up good ideas and hope that RTG will develop them with time.

[TErnest]

Magus666 makes an excellent and elequent arguement on this subject. The best I have seen from anyone... period.

 

My Arcane Services Inc. is one of the "elder races," active since turn 1. (Or turn 0, if you like.) I designed them to be a race of uber-spys. Color blending, hyper-senses, shapeshifting, telepaths. When I sent in my set-up, Pete warned me that the espionage section of the game was not active, and probably would not be for some time. After careful consideration, I decided to keep my racial design, for two reasons:

1) Most of the biological traits I selected had good uses outside of spy work.

2) I judged that eventually, RTG would implement the espionage rules... at which time I would be in a unique possition to offer services to my neighbors, since few others would bother to start, or continue to play, spy races under the current rules set.

 

I tell you all this so that you know exactly where I come from when I say the following:

 

In my judgement, Pete made exactly the right choice prioritizing corrections to / polishing / upgrading / fixing the space combat system. For no other reason, then for the fact that nearly everyone will likely engage in space combat over the course of the game, and that for the majority of possitions, it will play a significant part in the overall history of their race. The same cannot be said for spying, or theocrats, or pirates.

 

As for the other half of the equation, I still hope, and expect, that Pete will address these other, very important, aspects of the game. Eventually. Until then, Arcane Services Inc. will continue to research Cloaking Devices, and other stealth technologies in anticipation of the day when we will suddenly, overnight, become the SNROTE's foremost spy race. I am patient. And I have faith in Pete.

 

As for you other spy-like races, why don't you just give it up now, and generate a new possition.

 

TErnest

[Magus666]

You've been playing the game for a little over 3 months. How many turns is that - 7?

 

9 actually. And your point is...what? That since Ive only been in the game a few months, that I am incapable of reading YEARS worth of posts by the people who have been playing?

 

How do you know what, if any besides you're emperor, a character actually does in game, since you haven't experienced it yet?

 

See the above. From PERSONAL experience? I dont. I suppose I could assume that all the other players who have posted on these topics have been lying, and that these things actually do work wonderfully. Should I spend lots of time trying them out, and be happily surprised?

 

 

Trying to make the game what you want it to be, while it is not that type of game, certainly won't get RTG to change the whole system.

 

In fact, yes it will. Me alone? No. But if the player base as a whole, or a significant portion thereof, says "Hey Pete! We want THIS"...it will be fixed or changed. RTG is a BUSINESS, and the players are its customers. If ONE customer tells a business that they should change their product...its a complaint. If MANY customers do...its time to change the product, because otherwise you wont HAVE any customers.

 

 

 

And Prospective, I agree with you. SN has great potential, and I think it CAN be all those things we have been discussing...but only if the PLAYERS want it to be. As long as players sit there saying "Yes, THIS would be great if it worked...but COMBAT is more IMPORTANT", well COMBAT is what is going to be emphasised, and everything else put on the back burner...indefinitely. Do I expect everything to work TOMORROW? Of course not. These things take time. But SOME evident progress along ANY of the lines we have talked about would be a great boost.

[Prospective]

Magus,

 

I read your last paragraph and I'm sorry to disagree. The players have wanted many/all of these things for the last few years. And, improvement have been made. However, not everything can be worked on at the same time (geeze, I sound like I work for RTG). I do not know how Russ/Pete prioritize things but priorities have to be designated (I mean, combined they have 80 man hours of work a week to work with, not counting illnesses, routine billing and administrative duties and maybe a vacation or two occasionally damn their scurvy hides!!!).

 

If you look back at the last few years of posts and tally them up, my guess is that space combat improvements/knowledge dissemination will be at the top of the list (I haven't done it but just from the time I've spent reading posts it seems pretty likely). Which means that while people DO want espionage, cloaking devices and many other things, RTG apparently is working on what the players want most. We'll see tonight (or tomorrow) what comes of it and hopefully it will be something substantial.

 

I don't believe that you being a member for 7 months has much bearing as your opinion means as much as the next guy's but I think the players generally have ranked space combat at the high end of the spectrum. Hopefully we won't be disappointed.

[Magus666]

Well, it really sounds as if you are agreeing with me.

 

It seems that space combat has gotten the majority of work. Why? Because this is what the players have indicated is most important to them. We agree on this.

 

IS it important? Sure it is. Its important when you've spent lots of time, and lots of money building up your fleets. We agree on this.

 

Would players LIKE to see alot of the other things get done? Sure they would. We agree on this.

 

That's not really the point though.

 

As long as the majority of players say "We'd like to see these other things, but combat is more important", that's what is going to get the majority of the work. If the players said instead "hey, Space Combat works...well ENOUGH...for the moment...lets get some of the OTHER features implemented" Im fairly sure Pete would APPRECIATE a chance to work on something else. Chasing bugs isnt fun. Building new stuff and seeing it work is. Then go back to chasing the bugs.

[Locklyn]

I agree with you Magus (no big surprise there) but have over the years come to accept that this is the way it is and that there is no other game like this on the market. What personally pissed me off in this particular case was that I wasted 30 orders on this and haven't even gotten an excuse from Pete for misleading me or even offering to fix it in some way (relocate the LCs and compensating for the wasted orders) but being the pain in a butt I am that's to be expected...

 

/Locklyn

[Hughestrog]

I mean, combined they have 80 man hours of work a week to work with, not counting illnesses, routine billing and administrative duties and maybe a vacation or two occasionally damn their scurvy hides!!!

 

And don't forget Victory!