Surveying

[Hughestrog]

When surveying planets with moons, do you:

 

NM #101 Pinky 1

 

or

 

NM #101 Pinky 1a

 

Also, GEO order specifies moon (a-?) or planet (0), but CSV only asks for POP group. Now for planets without moons this is simple, you don't specify POP group and get a attrition survey for the planet. But what about moons? If you carryout this order without specifying POP group do you get planet and moons attrition?

[AKO]

If you want to CSV a moon without a pop group, you have to be over it. Hence:

 

NM #101 Pinky 1a

 

and then do the ORB, GEO, CSV, PMAP and EXPL there.

 

Kind regards,

[Hughestrog]

If you want to CSV a moon without a pop group, you have to be over it. Hence:

 

NM #101 Pinky 1a

 

and then do the ORB, GEO, CSV, PMAP and EXPL there.

 

Kind regards,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks!

[Ur Lord Tedric]

If you want to CSV a moon without a pop group, you have to be over it. Hence:

 

NM #101 Pinky 1a

 

and then do the ORB, GEO, CSV, PMAP and EXPL there.

 

Kind regards,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah!

 

But don't forget that PMAP & GEO still require you select the moon - otherwise you keep getting results for the Planet!!!

 

Chief Planner to Ur-Lord Tedric

[ali-t-akua]

QUOTE(Hughestrog @ May 30 2005, 09:13 AM)

QUOTE(AKO @ May 30 2005, 09:01 AM)

If you want to CSV a moon without a pop group, you have to be over it. Hence:

 

NM #101 Pinky 1a

 

and then do the ORB, GEO, CSV, PMAP and EXPL there.

 

Kind regards,

*

 

 

 

Thanks!

*

 

 

 

Ah!

 

But don't forget that PMAP & GEO still require you select the moon - otherwise you keep getting results for the Planet!!! poster_oops.gif

 

Chief Planner to Ur-Lord Tedric

 

And you can GEO and PMAP moons from the planet or the moons whereas PMAP, ORB and EXPL require you to be in orbit over the body you are surveying.

[Hughestrog]

[ali-t-akua]

When surveying planets with moons, do you:

 

NM #101 Pinky 1

 

or

 

NM #101 Pinky 1a

 

Also, GEO order specifies moon (a-?) or planet (0), but CSV only asks for POP group.  Now for planets without moons this is simple, you don't specify POP group and get a attrition survey for the planet.  But what about moons?  If you carryout this order without specifying POP group do you get planet and moons attrition?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must be in orbit over the body (moon or planet) you want to CSV. GEO and PMAP do not require this. You do not get the attrition for the moons and planet at once. You need to specifically CSV each body one at a time.

 

For example,

 

NM Pinky 1

CSV

NM Pinky 1a

CSV

NM Pinky 1b

CSV

 

will give you the attrition for Pinky and its moons, a and b.

[Hughestrog]

So:

 

NM Pinky 1a

GEO

 

Would give me the resources of the moon? That makes sense. But I could also be in orbit of the planet and issue GEO, it's only when I want the CSV, I have to be over the moon.

 

Bank holidays and having to work- no wonder my minds fried.

[ali-t-akua]

So:

 

NM Pinky 1a

GEO

 

Would give me the resources of the moon?  That makes sense.  But I could also be in orbit of the planet and issue GEO, it's only when I want the CSV, I have to be over the moon.

 

Bank holidays and having to work- no wonder my minds fried.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually the commands are:

 

NM Pinky 1a

GEO a

 

With your set of cammands you would be getting the GEO for the main planet, not moon a.

 

GEO and PMAP differ from CSV in that CSV requires you to be in orbit over the body to be surveyed whereas GEO and PMAP allow you to be in orbit over the main planet and still check out the moons. This means that you must put in the letter for the moon if that is what you want ot GEO. Don't ask why, that is just the way it is.

[Drasn]

So if Pinky 1 has 2 moons, and you're surveying with a fleet# 123, you would have to issue the following orders to fully survey the planet and it's moons.

 

NM, 123, Pinky, 1

PMAP, 123, 0

PMAP, 123, a

PMAP, 123, b

GEO, 123, 0

GEO, 123, a

GEO, 123, b

ORB, 123, 0

ORB, 123, a

ORB, 123, b

CSV, 123, 0

NM, 123, Pinky, 1a

CSV, 123, 0

NM, 123, Pinky, 1b

CSV, 123, 0

 

The PMAP, GEO, and ORB orders will be identical no matter which orbit you're at, so the following get's you the same thing.

 

NM, 123, Pinky, 1

PMAP, 123, 0

GEO, 123, 0

ORB, 123, 0

CSV, 123, 0

NM, 123, Pinky, 1a

PMAP, 123, a

GEO, 123, a

ORB, 123, a

CSV, 123, 0

NM, 123, Pinky, 1b

PMAP, 123, b

GEO, 123, b

ORB, 123, b

CSV, 123, 0

 

The only economy to the first ordering would be if you don't intend to CSV every world or moon at that orbital distance. Then you could skip one or more of the NMs and do all of your PMAP, GEO, and ORBs from a single orbit.

 

So far I've been moving to the orbit that has the most potential of needing a CSV, doing all of my PMAPs, GEOs, and ORBs. Then based on the resulting data, decide which worlds to CSV. If my initial NM guess was right, then I save an NM!

[ali-t-akua]

The ORB order only requires the fleet executing it (i.e. ORB, 123) and must be executed in the orbit of the planet you want to ORB. Therefore in Drasn's example, the first set of orders would generate three ORBs for Pinky. The second set would work and would generate ORB results for both Pinky and its moons.

[Drasn]

The ORB order only requires the fleet executing it (i.e. ORB, 123) and must be executed in the orbit of the planet you want to ORB. Therefore in Drasn's example, the first set of orders would generate three ORBs for Pinky. The second set would work and would generate ORB results for both Pinky and its moons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looking at the order supplement, the PMAP, GEO, and ORB only take a fleet. No orbit.

 

When you look at the Order Entry program though, all three orders take an orbit (Moon) parameter as well. The moon param does default to 0, but can be changed to a moon designator (a thru g) I've successfully used this on previous turns. My first example does work, including the ORB order. I double checked my turn results to be certain.

[WKE235]

I would like to see the CSV order changed to include an orbit, like the other orders. So you could do the CSV from any location in the orbital system. To me it would make sense. If I have the sensors that can do a GEO and PMAP of a planet or moon from anywhere in that orbit, then why should I be in orbit to do a CSV?

 

Heck, when you look at it, the PMAP gives you the values for everything that goes into a CSV order. Gravity, Atmo, Ocean, Tilt, Organisims, Radiation, Pollution, Temp, even Terrain. I really cannot figure our why CSV and PMAP are distinct orders. The way the orders exist, I would think you would have to do a PMAP order first, before any CSV, to get the information needed for analysis. But that's not the case. Or, lets say they are distinct because the CSV in theory is more detailed in scanning to give a colonial report. Since the CSV is stand alone, that means it figures out all the same stuff as the PMAP does .. but it never tells you these details. Frustrating .. so frustrating.

[Drasn]

I would like to see the CSV order changed to include an orbit, like the other orders.  So you could do the CSV from any location in the orbital system.  To me it would make sense.  If I have the sensors that can do a GEO and PMAP of a planet or moon from anywhere in that orbit, then why should I be in orbit to do a CSV? 

 

Heck, when you look at it, the PMAP gives you the values for everything that goes into a CSV order.  Gravity, Atmo, Ocean, Tilt, Organisims, Radiation, Pollution, Temp, even Terrain.  I really cannot figure our why CSV and PMAP are distinct orders.  The way the orders exist, I would think you would have to do a PMAP order first, before any CSV, to get the information needed for analysis.  But that's not the case.  Or, lets say they are distinct because the CSV in theory is more detailed in scanning to give a colonial report.  Since the CSV is stand alone, that means it figures out all the same stuff as the PMAP does .. but it never tells you these details.  Frustrating .. so frustrating.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting. I hadn't considered the relationship between PMAP and CSV. Since the CSV can also use a pop group (scanning specific installations and racial characteristics in the process), needing to move to orbit may still make sense. For the generic CSV I think your point stands.

 

Maybe what would make sense is to include a non-pop group based CSV report on the PMAP. Like you say everything is there. Just extend the report to include a basic CSV too. For a more specific CSV scan you'd still need to go to orbit.

 

Ultimately I don't care though. I'll play by whatever rules are set up. I'd rather see them working on more critical aspects of the game.

[ali-t-akua]

Looking at the order supplement, the PMAP, GEO, and ORB only take a fleet. No orbit.

 

When you look at the Order Entry program though, all three orders take an orbit (Moon) parameter as well. The moon param does default to 0, but can be changed to a moon designator (a thru g) I've successfully used this on previous turns. My first example does work, including the ORB order. I double checked my turn results to be certain.

 

You are correct. I have not run an ORB in many turns as PMAP usually covers identifying aliens, at least if the information in the turn results is to be believed (along wiht players who have pointed out the overlap) so I did not realize that the ORB order can also be run from any orbit. Thanks for pointing that out Drasn.