Naval attacks

[nfbeerse]

Hello,

 

When do ships break of an attack? Is that when 1 ships has lost its morale, or when the combined fleet has lost its morale?

 

Norbert

[RTGRuss]

Naval forces may attempt to break off a naval engagement at any time if they have damaged units (forces that begin a battle with damaged units may, in fact, attempt to break off without sustaining any new damage).

 

The decision is based on the percentage of the force that is actually damaged (tonnage). In a multi-ship naval force, a battleship with 50% damage, for example, would be considered more serious than a destroyer with 50% damage (in single unit forces there would be no difference since in both cases 50% of the force tonnage is damaged).

 

Unit experience levels are a factor as well as well as munitions loadouts - a force which has depleted its available munitions in combat will always try to break off the engagement at that point.

 

Russ

[nfbeerse]

Thanks Russ.

 

One more question about this subject.

 

How does this retreat strategy affect a task force making an amphibious landing while under fire from coastal batteries?

Do the landingcraft also break of the landing if they sustain damage?

 

Norbert

[RTGRuss]

The recommended amphibious operations model is to attach a naval escort force to the primary amphib force.

 

The primary force is issued the OMN, AA order and, if coastal batteries are present, the naval escort will automatically jump in to engage them in a battle (the primary force is not involved in this battle). If the naval escort force is victorious (destroying or silencing the coastal batteries), the amphib landing proceeds without further interference from any surviving coastal batteries. If the naval escort force is destroyed or breaks off action due to damage, the amphib landing would be canceled. In either case, your amphib force would not make a run in against enemy fire.

 

If you execute an OMN, AA without an attached naval escort force, the primary force will do its best to execute the landing. Any warships in the primary force will engage the batteries as normal and the amphibs themselves will charge the beachs. If your force survives 20 rounds of combat (as I recall - this doesn't happen often) or if the enemy coastal batteries are destroyed/silenced in the process then your marines will land and fight their battle. The entire force, amphibs included, will be under fire during the process of course and this can get costly. Amphibs will be closing the range and if they take damage will, assuming they survive the hit(s) act like other vessels (withdrawing or fleeing depending on damage level). If your force breaks action (morale roll based on fleet damage) the landing is off but your units will still have to draw out of range of the coastal batteries (there is a maximum round length as well but that usually only comes into play when you have a stern-chase situation in a ship-ship action). It is rare that this method is successful unless you have sufficient firepower in the primary force to deal with the coastal batteries, etc. In most cases, you are advised to go with the naval escort method and only keep enough warships in your primary force to provide a local ASW screen.

 

 

Russ

[Kurassier]

Ok, I'm pretty sure I understand this, but let me make sure. Here's an example:

Scenario A

TF 1 consisting of 40 LSM's (or other landing craft) and 10 CA's amphibiously assaults the beach.

 

Scenario B

TF 1 consisting of 10 CA's, naval escorts TF 2 consisting of 40 LSM's amphibiously assaulting the beach.

 

Assume all TF's have and open fire range of 24000 and all ships maintain range.

 

Under scenario B, TF 1 will go in and bombard the coastal batteries, while TF 2 sits out out sea, far from the guns. If TF 1 flees, then the LSM's will not go anywhere near the beach. If TF 1 silences the batteries, then TF 2 will go in to the beach and will not get shot at (even if batteries survived, since they have been silenced).

 

Under scenario A, TF 1's CAs will stop at 24000 yards and shell the coastal batteries, while at the same time the LSM's will 'charge' the beach. the Coastal batteries will shell the CA's and the LSM's (and at that range, all the CLAB's will aim for the LSM's). If the batteries are silenced, then the LSM's will hit the beach (possibly damaged), if the batteries win, the ships will flee and the lsm's will get potshots at them from the batteries as they flee.

 

The only difference between the above results, is that in Scenario B, your LSM's NEVER come under fire, while in Scenario A, your LSM's always come under fire.

 

So the LSM's won't 'maintain range' at 24,000 yards?

 

Tim

[RTGRuss]

Hi Tim,

 

Yes, that's correct.

 

Scenario A - The LSM's will move in towards the beach, potentially coming under murderous fire, while their escorts do their best to destroy/silence the batteries.

 

Scenario B - The LSM's stay back out of range until the batteries are destroyed/silenced then move in to land their troops.

 

Scenario B is the recommended tactic naturally but there are instances where Scenario A could work out well. If you don't have sufficient warships to provide a credible naval escort, if your naval escort doesn't have sufficient munitions (etc.) AND if the defenders only have a small number of batteries (all of them CHAB - CLAB batteries tend to have a field day against units that close within their range), then you might be able to force a landing in this fashion when you couldn't otherwise. Your landing craft will suffer losses on the run in but if you can survive it without breaking then your marines can storm the beach.

 

The decision to build or not build CLAB units centers around such factors.

 

An enemy using the Scenario B tactic will equip his naval escort with warships and the orders to engage the coastal batteries from beyond the range of CLAB (20K yards) so CLAB units won't have the opportunity to fire (unless the attacker makes a mistake). Given that CLAB units are pricey as well and don't take damage as well as CHAB - this would argue for building nothing but CHAB. CHAB, although it does more damage with a hit, has a slow rate of fire and is less accurate though so it tends to be less effective against larger numbers of small units (which is what a Scenario A tactic would involve). Building one or more CLAB, therefore, guards against Scenario A (and takes advantage of enemy mistakes) but also serves as a drain on the treasury that probably won't be an offensive factor at all and will actually hurt on the defense (easier to destroy...easier to silence the coastal batteries as a whole since that is based on the percentage of losses they have suffered).

 

One method is better on balance but there are some tradeoffs and special circumstances to consider as well.

 

 

Russ

[nfbeerse]

Thanks for all the insights on the fight of naval ships.

 

I still do not understand one thing. When I have a force of LCIs and some DDs which make an amphibious landing, why does this fleet break of its attack when only 1 LCI is sunk? In my opinion a landing fleet should continue its attack regardless of losses. Those landingcraft should charge the beaches and land the marine division.

 

Norbert

[RTGRuss]

The basic chance of breaking off a naval engagement (of any kind) is based on the combined damage rating of the force (the maximum amount of damage it can take) and how much damage the force has already suffered. There are several other factors that modify this (experience, commanders, munitions load) but this is the primary factor.

 

If a force with 2 LCIs, for example, loses 1 LCI then it has lost 50% of its max damage rating and the chance of breaking off will be fairly high. If a force with 50 LCIs loses 1 LCI then it has 2% of its max damage rating and the chance of breaking off will be fairly low. The force break checks are made prior to battle and after each combat round. It is possible for your force to attempt to break off immediately if it begins the battle with preexisting damage (i.e. your force commander is taking into account the state of his units and simulating the fact that many WWII engagements were fought with incomplete intelligence concerning enemy strength) or on any combat round once the battle begins.

 

There is no direct control over this breaking factor although you can do many things to adjust the odds in your favor (best commanders, keeping units at full strength, increasing the damage potential of your forces, making sure they have full munitions loadouts and orders to take advantage of their strengths, etc.

 

Russ

[nfbeerse]

Thanks Russ,

 

I understand the consideration now.

 

I will keep this in mind when I plan on playing with naval units.

 

Norbert

[Commander Azuth]

Thanks for this thread. This was very informative for someone (like me) who doesn't use naval fleets (although I might in the near future )

 

Commander Azuth