GATK

[hobknob]

Here is a ground combat result. The names have been redacted to protect the empires involved.

 

 

GATK: 10

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** GROUND COMBAT REPORT **

----- XXXXX [ N (Deep Red) 7 VI ] [single Star] - 2 -----

Attacker

Defender

** Table of Organization & Equipment: Army 10 # 10 **

Attacker

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 Colonial Settler

4 Combat Engineer

4 Imperial Army Air Force

1 Imperial Army Armor

6 Imperial Army Heavy Armor

4 Imperial Army Mechanized Infantry

4 Imperial Army Special Forces

1 Imperial Guards Heavy Air Defense

1 Imperial Guards Heavy Infantry

2 Imperial Guards Infantry

1 Imperial Guards Security

3 Transport

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Air Defense [2400] Anti-Aircraft Artillery, Argus Laser Cannon

Air Support [800] Helicopter

Ammunition [10500] Halftrack, Heavy Truck, Truck

Armor [22000] Armored Car, Light Tank

Broken Terrain [8000] Halftrack

Camouflage [400] Sneak Suit

Close Combat [31000] Ablative Armor, Battleaxe, Chainsaw, Club, Dagger, Flak Jacket

M75 High Explosive Grenade, Spear, Sword, Thermic Lance

Engineering [5600] Barbed Wire, High Explosive Demolition Charge

Environmental [400] ECK

Heavy Weapons [2100] Recoilless Rifle

Intelligence [1000] Smoke Projector, Triton Short Range Sonar

Open Terrain [16800] Armored Car, Heavy Truck, Light Tank, Truck

Security [1000] Dartgun, Tangler

Small Arms [12800] Carbine, Harpoon Gun, Jet Harpoon Launcher, Laser Rifle, Semiautomatic Pistol

Shotgun

Special Weapons [800] ICE-1

Transport [21000] Halftrack, Heavy Truck, Truck

 

** Table of Organization & Equipment: Home Guard # 1 **

Defender

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4 Imperial Army Armor

2 Imperial Army Mechanized Infantry

1 Imperial Guards Air Force

3 Imperial Guards Armor

1 Imperial Guards Artillery

1 Imperial Guards Heavy Air Defense

2 Imperial Guards Heavy Armor

2 Imperial Guards Heavy Infantry

2 Imperial Guards Infantry

2 Imperial Guards Security

1 Imperial Guards Special Forces

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Air Defense [1800] Anti-Aircraft Artillery, Argus Laser Cannon

Air Support [1200] Attack Helicopter, Helicopter

Air To Air [1800] Jet Fighter

Antitank [5100] Viper Anti-Tank Guided Missile

Armor [84100] Armored Car, Ferret Excavator Tank, Light Tank, Scout Tank

Artillery [800] Longbow, M82 Mortar

Broken Terrain [100] Ferret Excavator Tank

Camouflage [100] Sneak Suit

Chemical Weapons [600] Irritant Agents Chemical Munitions

Close Combat [21000] Ablative Armor, Battleaxe, Chainsaw, Club, Dagger, Flak Jacket

M75 High Explosive Grenade, Spear, Sword, Thermic Lance

Heavy Weapons [9200] Brumbar Infantry Support Gun, Recoilless Rifle

Intelligence [1200] Scout Tank, Smoke Projector, Triton Short Range Sonar

Nuclear Weapons [200] Nuclear Bomb

Open Terrain [35100] Armored Car, Heavy Truck, Light Tank, Scout Tank, Truck

Security [4000] Dartgun, Tazer

Small Arms [36000] Carbine, Gas Cannon, Gauss Rifle, Harpoon Gun, Heavy Gauss Rifle

Heavy Shotgun, Laser Rifle, Semiautomatic Pistol, Shotgun

Subterranean [750] Ferret Excavator Tank

 

** Tactical Rating Modifiers **

Air Defense Air Support Air to Air Ammunition Amphibious Antitank Aquatic

+1 -2 -10 +10 +0 -10 +0

Armor Artillery Biodefense Bioweapons Broken Terrain Camouflage Chemdefense

-4 -10 +0 +0 +10 +3 +0

Chemweapons Close Combat EW Engineering Environmental ESP Heavy Weapons

-10 -2 +0 +10 +10 +0 -4

Intel Medical Nuc Defense Nuc Weapons Open Terrain Orbital Bmb Security

-2 +0 +0 -10 -3 +0 -4

Small Arms Space Defense Special Wpns Subterranean Telekinesis Telepathics Transport

-3 +0 +10 -10 +0 +0 +10

Unmodified odds: 1 Total tactical combat odds shifts: -2

Attacking divisions counted as if they were 8.25 divisions each for casualty purposes

Defending divisions counted as if they were 7.75 divisions each for casualty purposes

Ground combat results

Attacker losses: 2 Colonial Settler, 4 Combat Engineer, 4 Imperial Army Air Force, 1 Imperial Army Armor, 4 Imperial

Army Heavy Armor, 4 Imperial Army Mechanized Infantry, 2 Imperial Army Special Forces, 1 Imperial Guards Heavy Air Defense,

1 Imperial Guards Security, 3 Transport

Defender losses: <all divisions>

Attacker assault forces capture the Defender homeworld after an brutal series of battles with the fierce

defenders. Troopers on both sides proved very difficult to kill, and the fighting became extremely intense in almost every

quarter, but the attackers came out on top, claiming the planet for the greater glory of the Attacker!

The following equipment, obtained during the battle, may be ANZ'd by your military specialists at their leisure:

... Attack Helicopter ... Brumbar Infantry Support Gun ... Ferret Excavator Tank ... Gas Cannon ... Gauss Rifle ... Heavy

Gauss Rifle ... Heavy Shotgun ... Jet Fighter ... Scout Tank ... Tazer ... Viper Anti-Tank Guided Missile ...

============================================================

 

Reproduced with permission of the Attacker.

 

 

edit; The tables don't line up very well, the numbers should spread out under the headings above.

Edited November 4, 2005 by hobknob

[Kurassier]

The following are the results of EVERY ground attack I have initiated, this is the most recent one.

 

-----GATK (Ground Attack)-----

GATK: 15

No enemy resistance is encountered by your ground forces!

 

[rotor911]

Thanks a lot! It is very interesting and should spare me a lot of testing. Could you please post a pmap of the planet where this battle took place?

[hobknob]

Well, I could, but I don't think I will. The planet information would only be beneficial if you knew both sides as well as the various lifeform choices taken by each side. In addition, the PMAP details should not have much of anything to do with combat results and if there is some sort of adjustment made it doesn't show up on the combat report anyway.

 

I may post them if you can convince me that there is some benefit to be had, but right now I don't see one that would outweigh the security aspects of releaseing specific data.

 

[Prospective]

Thanks Hobknob. A couple questions that you may or may not be able to answer.

 

The end of the report states:

 

The following equipment, obtained during the battle, may be ANZ'd by your military specialists at their leisure...

 

 

Does that mean that as a result of being victorious in the battle have acquired those particular ground combat technologies (made breakthroughs without devoting any RC's towards them)?

 

Or does it just mean that you can ANZ them in order to find out the pre-req's needed to get the technology?

 

Doing a comparison of technologies, both the attacker and defender have, under the "Air Defense" section Anti-Aircraft Artillery and Argus Laser Cannon. However, the attacker has a 2400 rating whereas the defender has an 1800 rating. Any ideas why you got the advantage there? Seems like it could be a bug in the groundcombat calculations.

 

In the "Tactical Rating Modifiers" section, some of the numbers seem to make sense whereas others don't so much.

 

For instance, the attacker has a 1000 in Security while the defender has 4000. The modifier is -4 which seems to indicate that defenders rating is 4 times better than attacker (4000/1000 = 4, attacker gets the negative).

 

However, look at Camoflage. Attacker has a 400 while defender has 100. If you do the math using the same method (400/100 = 4, attacker gets the positive) it doesn't work. Attacker only got a +3.

 

In Armor, attacker has a 22000 rating and defender has 84100. So, 84100/22000 = 3.82 and attacker gets the negative. If you round up, it makes sense that attacker gets -4. But, in Open Terrain, attacker has 16800 and defender has 35100. So, 35100/16800=2.09... why is the number at -3? If the program rounds by traditional methods, anything greater or equal to 0.5 rounds up and below rounds down.

 

So, are there errors in the calculations in ground combat? Or, am I missing some simple explanation that makes these numbers work out?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Steve

[ali-t-akua]

Doing a comparison of technologies, both the attacker and defender have, under the "Air Defense" section Anti-Aircraft Artillery and Argus Laser Cannon. However, the attacker has a 2400 rating whereas the defender has an 1800 rating. Any ideas why you got the advantage there? Seems like it could be a bug in the groundcombat calculations.

 

Every unit also has a multiplier for different types of technologies and that multiplier is added up for each unit employed in teh ground attack. Therefore if the attacker has four units with an air defense rating of 1 and the defender has three with a rating of one and the techs add up to 600, there will be a rating of 2400 vs 1800.

[rotor911]

About the pmap, I was just interested by the terrain list but you're right, there are too much other (and hidden) factors involved...

[Prospective]

Ali,

 

Ok, I can see your point, so that explains the difference in the Air Defense question.

 

However, what about the math? How do the "Tactical Rating Modifiers" reconcile?

 

Also, did Hobknob get the technology advances of the other combatant? Or is he just allowed to do an ANZ in order to see what the pre-req's are in order to get the tech through normal channels?

 

Thanks!!

[hobknob]

You don't get any sort of tech advance, you only get the option to ANZ the tech. You may even get some of these when you aren't so victorious as well. It would be real nice if you got a few RC's worth of research or the equivalent of a "minor breakthrough" when you are victorious, but so far it is only the ANZ.

 

The way I read the report I look to see what techs the opponent has and then what I have. If he has more then I need to build more divisions to offset his tech advantage. If I already have loads of strength in something then I try and beef up other areas through tech advancement or through more unit creations.

 

Tactical rating modifiers are generally -10 to +10. In most cases the best you can be is +10. This makes it very difficult for somebody to win with just a single type of unit. (This was a correction from SNII where Heavy Armor rained supreme and there was little point in building anything else.) When you compare the numbers you want to have more of the ratings in the the + category for you than the other way around. If you get a + rating then you are better at that item. If you probe a dropped position that is relatively static you can see where you are weak and build accordingly. The more +'s the better and the higher the number the better. If you have a +1 then you need some help to shore up that rating area.

 

Generally speaking, there is usually some sort of comentary that reflects the defensive strength of the opponent. This is usually some comments about how tough they are or how they don't die even when you de-limb them or someting. You also get some of the other types too where it says the opponent will pass out if you look at them or something. I would imagine that these are GM moderated comments so not everybody may get them.

 

As far as the actual rating numbers go; I have no clue as to how they are figured out. There have been many theories that all seem to fall apart at one point or another. For all I know, these ratings show lifeform modifications. That might explain the difference, but it will be tough to tell as you would need to know every detail about both sides of the combat and this is rarely the case. Troops being as expensive as they are it makes combat trials with friendlies very expensive.

 

Enjoy

 

 

[SargonKingOfSlith]

Thanks for the info hobknob!

 

I'm OK with assuming that the Tactical Rating Modifiers include racial mods. and/or terrain effects. The biggest discrepancy in your example is in Close Combat. (The attack has a 3 to 2 numerical rating, but the Tactical Rating Modifier shows 2 to 1 in favor of the defender.) So the defender could have claws and fangs.

[Ixitixl]

Hobknob

 

What Offensive Combat Order was issued by the attacker? Did the attacker stay with the Frontal Assault or did he issuew a new attack order? What was the Standing Defense Order used for the defender?

[Prospective]

It is a shame you don't get anything regarding tech advances (I mean, if you get enough info to do an ANZ, shouldn't you get at least a minor breakthrough in the actual tech itself)?

 

Maybe the reason that the numbers don't add up is due to the fact that the effects of racial modifiers are showing up. That might end up skewing the TAC numbers. Do you have any GCB's that you'd care to reveal (not exactly what they are but whether there are any + or - values)?

 

From the info in the report, you had a -2 odds shift going into combat yet you were still victorious. Since you had 33 units and the defenders had 21 units, it seems as though the defender should have won if the odds shift was 2:1 in favor of the defender....

 

Anyone else out there that would be willing to share ground combat reports? Obviously the more info out there, the better the chance to figgure out how the heck this works.

[hobknob]

Combat tactics were the defaults all around.

 

I am not sure about the odds and how they relate, but it was apparent that the attackers were harder to kill than the defender, but I think the Defender had better tech.