Tokmok Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 1) How do you use the different Science Installations for maximum effect? 2) I have seen the Warp point Survey Notes and it seems Science Installations help with that. Is there other things a Science installation helps with? 3) Do you need a Scientist at the World for the installation to work? 4) What happens when you do explore orders on a world with Science Installations? Does there have to be a Scientist in the Fleet or on the world ? 5) From the Installation description it seems that the Science Installations have more effect on worlds very different from your Home world is that also your experience? 6) It also says in the rules that the Research benefit from Science Installations is very small Are they worth the cost to build or does the Research-benefit ad up to a considerable amout when you have enough of them? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 1) How do you use the different Science Installations for maximum effect? -- All I use them for is surveying warp points. Once I have all the warp points I dismantle the installtions, pack up, and head to the next star. Beyond that they seem pretty useless due to all the research limitation imposed on the game. 2) I have seen the Warp point Survey Notes and it seems Science Installations help with that. Is there other things a Science installation helps with? -- Maybe slight, very slight, bonuses to research breakthough chances on the HW, and to explore results being positives on other worlds. 3) Do you need a Scientist at the World for the installation to work? --- No. It helps boost Warp Point surveys just fine with no scientist. You used a POP in building the installation, and they do all the work and keep it running. 4) What happens when you do explore orders on a world with Science Installations? Does there have to be a Scientist in the Fleet or on the world ? -- Explores do not require characters to be present on a world of ship. But their presence can somewhat improve the odds of getting a postive explore result, dependent on their level. 5) From the Installation description it seems that the Science Installations have more effect on worlds very different from your Home world is that also your experience? -- To early to tell. They do work wonders with Warp Surveys. 6) It also says in the rules that the Research benefit from Science Installations is very small Are they worth the cost to build or does the Research-benefit ad up to a considerable amout when you have enough of them? -- What this means is they increase the chances slightly to get finds from explores, or breakthroughs on the homeworld for ones built there. But they do NOT generate research in as of themselves. Research has been hemmed in as much as possible by RTG to do everything they can to avoid someone racing away on a research binge. For example, if you conquer another players HW, you do NOT get 25 more RC to play with. You only have 25 RC to use in the game for eternity. And any bonuses that occur are designed to be as small as possible so they can't be used to unbalance the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 In related issues - [1] There is no need to have more than one of each type of Science Installation in a system with regards to Warp Point Survey assistance - only the first one counts. [2] Personally, there is really no need to have more than one of each Science Installation per system in the game that I have seen. [3] Science Installations and Scientists can work together synergistally, but there seems to be no appreciable advantage in doing so. [4] Scientists by themselves can generate breakthroughs in any area of technology that you have some research in. These breakthroughs are roughly equivalent to the technology you can research following a successful EXPL Order. The interesting feature is that while EXPL Orders can garner you some research in any field of technology, Scientist breakthroughs only affect technologies that you have research in. Note that I say, technologies that you have research in, which means that while you may not have put said technology into your Research Center, if you earned some research via an EXPL Order, your Scientist may independently advance said technology (e.g. 4th Generation Psychology). [5] [beg Mode:ON] I am still a believer that R&D is too slow in SN:ROTE. While I do not want Tech to become the be-all end-all of the game like other SF PBM/PBeMs of the past, I think the pendulum was swung too far the other direction. I would like to see everybody's Research Centers be doubled, output-wise, so as to not imbalance the game. [beg Mode:OFF] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted August 10, 2003 Report Share Posted August 10, 2003 [5] [beg Mode:ON] I am still a believer that R&D is too slow in SN:ROTE. While I do not want Tech to become the be-all end-all of the game like other SF PBM/PBeMs of the past, I think the pendulum was swung too far the other direction. I would like to see everybody's Research Centers be doubled, output-wise, so as to not imbalance the game. [beg Mode:OFF] Whilst I think the jury's still out on this one, perhaps we could ask the Glorious Masters if they'd please just lets us know the standard research formula? It would sure save a lot of frustration for the early players. So, dear Pete, just like we know what the formula for Mines and Hydro/Geo is, could we, pretty please, just be told what the formula for multiple RCs is......??????? Pleadingly, The Entire and Complete Conclave to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Shadow - It is my understanding that multiple installations all contribute toward a successful warp survey, they just have reduced effect( like everything else) so it does pay to build more than 1 of an installation. For myself, I just build 7-8 astronomical observatories and one or two other things and that's it. Saves orders on the builing and dismantling too. Since I haven't had any failures yet I have to believe that it works as I believe, more time will tell. As far as the formula for research goes, I don't think it is that difficult to figure out. It might take 10-12 turns but it isn't that difficult to discern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Hobknob, I really don't care what the multiple RC formula is. I'm wanting an across the board turbocharger for everybody's RCs. Nothing super extravagant, like say, Masters of Orion, where if you build all of the Science/Research installations and throw enough Scientist types at it you can learn everything about everything. I just think that the current RC output is low enough that doubling it won't throw the game into a Tech-race Tail Spin. However, I do think it would make the game more interesting and more flexible/forgiving, IMO. Right now, I am stumbling in the dark hoping that I'm not tracking up some funky dead end branch of the Tech Tree. I'm not looking for the ability to become some kind of ultra-tech uber-race. On the other hand, the way it stands, my fear is that we're all going to end up like koalas - single source dependent. FWIW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 Ahh.... I would think that the further along the game gets the less likely that a dramatic increase like that would be possible. It would likely benefit those that didn't have any global points to spend and leave those with lots of points at a disadvantage because they gave up so much to get the points in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted August 11, 2003 Report Share Posted August 11, 2003 True, but many people are creating races with saved up points precisely because R&D is so slow. You can 'boot strap' your race to a pretty considerable high tech edge that will take those races who did not save as many points years to catch up to. The Rulebook seriously downplayed the efficacy of saved points; an inference that has yet to be born out after ten months of play. I figure as long as I am playtesting, I'll offer suggestions on how I think the game could be better is all. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 You forgot to mention it is slowed even more due to the penalties applied to multiple RC research on a turn on a tech. Assign 2 RC's to a tech per turn, and you get 1.5 or less RC each turn applied towards achieving the tech. Assign 3 RC's and get 1.75 or less RC applied each turn. And the penalties get worse the more you apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr Posted August 12, 2003 Report Share Posted August 12, 2003 <rant/opinion warning> Gads. Ok. I had worried, at the start that I might be getting into the wrong game when I noticed just how many spreadsheets and formulas were available. I'm past that now, having fun running and slowly expanding the empire. Yes... I said slowly. Within character, my race has had no evidence that there are any other people out there. So why expand quickly? I think we should be careful. There comes a point when this game could well stop being a game and become simply a study in mathmatics. The person who comes closest to guessing the formulas the game designers used quickest wins. Gaaa. How is that 'fun?' I think we owe it to the game designers to 'live' within the system they created. While it makes sense within the game to research gravitics, it makes far less sense to petition the game designers to change how gravity works. Play it where it lay, I say. -Sha'thar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquilonia Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Hi everybody, I was out of country for the week and came today. And writing a response to the most exciting subject for me at the current threads... If this game would be a heavily text reported game then we wouldn't need any formula, we would make trials and guesses, but Supernova is a number/math based (and reported) game... so we need the formulas for mechanics.. 1- Research 2- Space Battles 3- Ground Battles 4- Col.Attritions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 I think Pete miscalculated when it came to his fear of tech overtaking the game and slowed down research so immensely and then let something like the SRPs come through without a thought. Having a super research race is useless when a dopey race with tons of SRPs can outbuy you to any tech in no time. When asked about this on the old boards before the game started Pete ensured that SRPs could only be used to buy the lower level of technologies wich didn't really hold as we've seen in the game. So the tech is unbalanced in disfavour of those actually thinking they could build a good research race... /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 I think the disconnect was how folks defined "lower tech". Pete knows the entire tech tree. We don't, which means that we really don't have a good perspective on how big it really is and what Pete considers to be "low tech". I've seen Mk V Antimatter Engines, which have got to be more advanced than Mk VI Nuclear Engines. You may be able to use all of your points getting to Mk VI Nuclear Engines, but they won't help you at all with Mk I Antimatter Engines. Flip side: Low Tech may be anything that is categorized as Average, Fair or Poor; as opposed to how "high" up the tree you are. FWIW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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