Azuth Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I've been pondering the following question(s) for some time now: What is the incentive for warfare; for conquering another Homeworld (HW)? I mean, if you conquered another players HW, you don't get any additional Research Centers (not even 1 RC per HW.... ) You don't capture the blueprints to technologies that the world has been creating for some time. Also, the HW's environment will most likely be hostile to the conqueror. Oh...there's always the thrill of battle, pitting skill vs. skill, and smashing your enemies to pulp Not to mention bragging rights, but we're doing that already in some limited way. So I have to ask....what do you get if you conquer player X? - Do you get their Imperial Stockpile? or just a portion of it? - Do you gain any Diplomatic leverage (points) for being notorious or feared? - Do you gain control of any of their fleets or left over armies? - Do you acquire any Warp Point Surveryed information, Ship Design Reports to add to your own, Fleets Reports, Characters, etc...? Additionally, if you conquer and now control player Xs HW, I'm sure you're going to need to send in a bunch of orders. Do you get any bonus orders (one time or as an added bonus per HW conquered)? If not, then I know I'll have to get another job to pay for them extra orders. I will like to hear people's thought on this (especially Pete and Russ ). there I go, starting trouble. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixitixl Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 The two main reasons for war is: territory and resources. At present there may be a lot of room for expansion from our core worlds, and only a few empires have begun first contact. But in a few years, those borders may start to feel like they are closing in on you, especially when you have exploited the best worlds in your systems and only have moderate worlds or worse to choose from. With any luck your neighbours require much different worlds than you do and will allow you to colonize the worlds that are more ideal for yourself. But would the list of these worlds include ones with high resource yields such as 500+ for Iron??? Eventually you will feel that your empire is simply too large for the space you occupy. You have begun mining resources that you considered not too small a couple of years ago. You have also stopped building exploration ships some time ago because you have no where else to go and have been building warships instead to protect your empire. Lets review, you need more territory for your ever increasing population, and you have a large fleet of warships and bored Naval Commanders. At this stage of the game you are probably looking for trouble. You may have built strong relations with your neighbours or not. Or you might even consider forming a military alliance with a few of your neighbors and attack some empire and decide to spit his territory amongst yourselves. My opinion is that war will come... Especially if your neighbour is Gjorhaan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaoCao the Wicked Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 To: Azuth and other Pan-Galactic Peacniks Fr: CaoCao the Wicked Re: "Daddy, why does there have to be war?" The puprose of war my friends is obvious; to cause pain. To cause the pain the Heavens demand we wreck upon all who cross our path. Not to gain resources or territory -- these things have no intrinsic worth. Not to brag (though this is fun) or to "test skill vs. skill" (ours is not to die for the gods, but to kill you in their name). We wage war to cast down the ramparts you've built against entropy. To take the structures you've built with time and care and scatter them to the night. To leave you crying for the years and labor and essence spent in building when it has all been destroyed in a single turn. That is why we make war. That is why you must make war as well. Delenda est Valwyno. CaoCao the Wicked caocao@evilemail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 (edited) Here are some of my reasons to go to war and what I expect to get out of it. 1) Neighbor has finally irritated me for the last time. 2) Neighbor has finally upgraded all homeworld industries to Improved Tech. 3) I am already allied to my other neighbors and don't want any other allies. 4) I have finally gotten my Mk VI Uber Missile and have several bored Naval Commanders. 5) He started it. 6) He was about to start it.. Really he was. 7) Several neighbors are looking for a better onestop shopping center with multiple colonies represented. (This idea may not sork now that Pete has adjusted some game code) What I expect to get out of it. A) I expect to either force a player to drop or reduce his position to something less than useful. I have every intention of conquering homeworlds and increasing my industrial base. If a player self destructs a position to keep me from getting it then I have achieved A above. C) I expect to spend many months of intense combat to relieve the boredom which we currently face. D) I don't necessarily to come out of the entire process unscathed so if I get the short end of the stick that is good too. I wioll then have more $$$ to spend on another position or something else entirely. E) Combat is one of the 3 principle tenants of this game so it will happen. F) I expect to be able to get a homeworld with a working population of at least 150,000 pop to build up as I see fit. I really think it will be more like 250-300,000 pop but the first # is a conservative estimate. Attrition levels will not matter in the slightest since I will not be colonizing. That is the nice thing about colonizing. G) I don't expect to get free turns, warp point information, major tech data or increased research capacity, free tech ( although I really think this would be nice and would encourage conquest), or many of the other suggestions out there. There you have it. Edited September 12, 2003 by hobknob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Lariss Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 I've been pondering the following question(s) for some time now: What is the incentive for warfare; for conquering another Homeworld (HW)? All the responses so far ahve been well thought out and carfully considered but the best reason to go to war is to beat up the bad guy and take all his stuff. (the other guy is always the Bad guy) that way you can build more stuff and move on to the next bad guy and stomp him and then take his stuff Even if he dismantles everthing before you move in it willonly take a few orders to rebuild everthing and a lot of the stuff he has wll not be scrapable. so Step one---------Beat up the bad guy Step Two---------take his stuff Step Three-------rebuild Step Four--------Go to step one Works for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 They key to all of this is Population. If you conquer a persons homeworld and find a pile of 100,000,000 Construction Materials, that pile is pretty useless unless you have Population to go along with it. Taking another players HW is likely to be costly. Forts defending the HW have nine times the structural integrity than ships as pointed out in the recent combat notes from RTG. And of course orbital stations have three times the structure. So getting through the WP to the HW, to the planet, and taking out the fort(s) will mean a LOT of tonnage in ships. To top it all off, the "bad guy" can build various troops on the spot while you have to cart them across the universe. So to weaken the troops some type of orbital bombardment is called for. We have no idea yet what effect this has on the Population and structures of a world. Still, raining down Thermo-Atomic Bombs is likely to have some negative impact. You can turn Population into Soldiers fairly cheaply. Which means a LOT of bombardment and a LOT of (my guess) dead Population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Still, raining down Thermo-Atomic Bombs is likely to have some negative impact. You can turn Population into Soldiers fairly cheaply. Which means a LOT of bombardment and a LOT of (my guess) dead Population. Guess that is where those Mind powers might come in handy. "You are now all Sabeli, You are all now Sabeli, You are all now Sabeli, Buy Low, Sell High, You are all now Sabeli" or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Mind powers could work. But I have yet to see anything in my research queue. Some type of mass mental control device that would insidiously beam out waves of energy to enslave the population to my will. Of course I have yet to complete Advanced Electronics. Maybe when I do that will finally give me the ability to research Television. "Who wants to be an Exelonian" "Survivor: Exelonian Adventure" "My Mother the Exelonian" "Married with Exelonians" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Lariss Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 WKE235 Still, raining down Thermo-Atomic Bombs is likely to have some negative impact. You can turn Population into Soldiers fairly cheaply. Which means a LOT of bombardment and a LOT of (my guess) dead Population. Quite true, I assume that orbital Bombardment, especially with the extensive use of MDD's, will take out a percentage of the populateion but, it would not take that long to replace 10-20% of the population and even if there was as much as a 40% pop loss because of orbital Bombardment that is still a lot of Pop that you did not have previously and now they are all working for you instead of your enemy. A signifigant net gain. the real question is how long it will take to rebuild back to your "Pre-War" strength (as the battle is bound to weaken you, and thus make you vulnrable). the real question is "Is the short term weakness and loss of troops, ships, production, etc worth the long term gain of (as little as) a 40% gain in production. I suspect that, for most, early on the answer will be no but later in the game the answer wil be yes. it is an equation that each empire leader must answer for him/herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshadow Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 The fact the HW is mostly destroyed is not even important. If there is still 10,000 pop there, how long would it take you to build a colony that size? If there is 100,000 pop still there<WOW> Moonshadow I would rather have an ally, but if they are not nice what is a poor emperor to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gjorhaan Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 Add your systems to the "galactic directory." Befriend your traitors-in-waiting. Trade your items. Expand all you like. Build your ships and waste time hauling alien items into your shipyards for defence....all the while, Gjo'jaol is watching....waiting....building.... Our methods have granted us tremendous success in industry; to the third degree. Our fleets gather more swiftly....... At last! Gjo'jaol will arise for your glorious salvation. The Blazing Passage awaits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolfe99 Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 A thought is that the Psi based MDD's may do less "structural damage" meaning you may kill a bunch of pop but you'll leave the installations alone. So long as there is enough pop left to man the installations, you'll nearly double your production. Sounds like sufficient incentive to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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