ShadowKitsune Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 O Veterans of Victory! I have some questions concerning the PAP, PAPW and DW Orders. I received a Non-Aggression Pact proposal notification and a Non-Aggression Pact proposal withdrawn notification from the same country on the same turn report. Can you actually send both Orders in the same turn? Order #29 - PAP <Country X> NAP Order #30 - PAPW <Country X> Is this some kind of semi-subtle "please Contact me" message? (I don't have my Privacy Option ON, I don't think) Or does a Computer Controlled position just shoot NAP proposals out at random? ___________________________ If a neighboring player, who was your Ally, drops from the game, can you do a DW on said position? If so, are you automatically at war with that position or is there a 20% chance (the break alliance success percentage) that you will be at war? Or do you have to do two Orders? Order #1 - BPA <Country X> Order #2 - DW <Country X> Thanks in advance, -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 ShadowK, I think it is possible to order a PAP and a PAPW in the same turn, but I don't think that's what happened.... I think the player in question either ran his turn after yours in one tech period and before you in the next, so they might show up on your results at the same time. (See it as a log that gets cleared when you run your turn.) The other option is that this player gave more than 3 PAP orders in the same turn. When issuing the fourth PAP it will automatically withdraw the first, because you can only have 3 PAP's pending at any time. The rules for breaking an ALL and declaring war on an inactive position are exactly the same as for active players. So you have to issue 2 orders, and you get a 20% chance to break the ALL on your first try. (25% on the next....) Hamish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted December 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 The rules for breaking an ALL and declaring war on an inactive position are exactly the same as for active players. So you have to issue 2 orders, and you get a 20% chance to break the ALL on your first try. (25% on the next....) Thanks Hamish! So essentially, if my BPA Order fails (e.g. the Alliance holds), the DW Order will fail because of the Alliance being in place? I'm glad this BBS exists or I'd be spending a fortune in long distance phone calls to Russ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 A common tactic is to issue the BPA order followed by a DW order (on the same turn), and then a bunch of OMA, OMG orders in case the BPA worked. Of course if not, then the OMG, OMA orders will fail. OH, and all of your NAP, ALL and TA's remain regardless of whether the nation drops and is computer run. In fact, most computer run players will issue a NAP order to you if you issue one to them. Very common way to get a political point bump later in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfbeerse Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Hey Kurassier, I did not know that a computer controlled country accepts a NAP proposal. This could be interesting. After breaking a TA, you will also have to break the NAP with the same country! You can not DW immediately after breaking a TA. Norbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limburgia Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Norbert, There is also a chance that they accept ALL proposals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfbeerse Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Limburgia, That is also interesting. Thanks, Norbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 There is also a chance that they accept ALL proposals. Sorry, forgot about that. I have never had a computer controlled player NOT accept a NAP from me. I believe the ALL is the same, however, if they already have 8 ALL's then obviously they could not accept another. Thanks for the reminder Limburgia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted December 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Can you use PAPs as an indirect weapon? If you know that Finland is a Computer Controlled position and that Northern Russia is trying to conquer it, should you send in PAP Finland NAP or PAP Finland ALL Orders just to bolster Finland's morale? Flip side, if you did, and Northern Russia conquers Finland does it cause you any harm (e.g. does the conquest of a nation break all of its Political Agreements)? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfbeerse Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Hey Shadow, Conquest of a nation does not cancel any political agreements with other nations. So, conquest has no negative infuence on your nation, unless you have a TA with that nation at the end of the game. Victory points at the end of the game are shared and devided by a TA pack... Why would you bolster the morale of a computernation? That nation is bound to be kicked out of the game. You only want to make an agreement with a computernation in order to bolster your own morale. Norbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 If you know that Finland is a Computer Controlled position and that Northern Russia is trying to conquer it, should you send in PAP Finland NAP or PAP Finland ALL Orders just to bolster Finland's morale? Boosting Finland's morale would not help. Moral is only relevant for final scores AND make sure you are above zero. If you have a negative moral, peace can be forced upon you. If northern russia was destroying finland, they would want to conquer the entire thing and would have no incentive to force peace on them. Flip side, if you did, and Northern Russia conquers Finland does it cause you any harm (e.g. does the conquest of a nation break all of its Political Agreements)? The only way to break a political agreement is for one of the parties to the agreement to issue a successful BPA order. Finland could be wiped out and have absolutely NO territory and it would still maintain its political agreements until a successful BPA was issued. Currently, this is the only way to break political agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted December 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Why would you bolster the morale of a computer nation? That nation is bound to be kicked out of the game. You only want to make an agreement with a computernation in order to bolster your own morale. Norbert, Since it is a quid pro quo relationship, bolstering their morale bolsters my morale as well. I can't be the first person to think of sending out NAP and ALL agreements to computer nations to boost my own morale, especially if said nation is no where near my position. If I was Iceland, odds are pretty low that I'd be attacking Trans-Jordan or the UAE before another nation, like Saudi Arabia or Egypt, did. If I understand the Political rules right, I could be a Total Ally of Egypt and an Ally of Trans-Jordan, while Egypt is conquering Trans-Jordan. From what I understand from the Rules, players tend to drop countries prior to the utter conquest. For the cost of one PAP Order, I could gain +5 Morale from a NAP with a soon to be computer controlled Government-in-Exile. Its definitely cheaper than a PA order. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Yep, boosting your own moral is exactly why you do it. It also would not be uncommon for say the USA to get a NAP proposal from UAE or Central Russia on turn 1 or 2, just because the odds of fighting are slim. And I almost always offer a NAP to a country that I know has been knocked out of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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