PhaseDragon Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 What if any character "Lost in space" would become a pirate bent on revenge against the empire who discarded them and assemble a small fleet or become mercenaries for hire by another empire....etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Morgan Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 Isn't therte something in the SCUT order about legendary characters preventing it? Aye, but is that actually coded or is it fluff like the 1,000 ton minimum ship building requirement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Morgan Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 Hmmm ... I agree that there should be some kind of check that enforces a rule of No Characters can be in an empty fleet. If you don't have any ships in a Fleet, you cannot AC a Character into that Fleet. If you empty a Fleet with an RN Order, all Characters simply transfer to the receiving Fleet. If you empty a Fleet with a SCRP Order, all Characters simply transfer to the Pop Group's planet. If you empty a Fleet using the SCUT Order, all Characters simply transfer to the Deep Black (e.g. they die). That is a horrible change. With your change, to move a leader between planet 1 and planet 2 you need two turns (at one AC per turn), a fleet and at least three orders . Presently it takes one turn and one order with the personal shuttles . Also, secret agents (when they get coded ) won't be able to slip into the world without first winning in space and if you can do that then why not just drop troops or MDDs .... If you change the AC back to the way it was then we are back to the original problem with multiple AC orders and leaders who can do many actions in a turn. A simple error check of DECF solves the issue presented in this thread whilst maintaining the in-system flexibility of legendary character mobility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 Mr. Morgan, I made no mention of changing the code allowing a Character to be reassigned to a Planet within the same system the Character is currently in. I specifically talked about not allowing Characters to be in empty (e.g. Shipless) Fleets. So your conclusion that transferring a Legendary Character from planet to planet, in system, would take two turns, one fleet and three orders is an incorrect one. My suggestion covers the issues of 'orphaned' Legendary Characters in empty Fleets and the potential abuse of using empty fleets to 'warp' Legendary Characters across known space. Admittedly, my suggestion includes one assumption, which is that one would not issue a SCUT order in a system with a friendly Pop Group available. I can't speak to your assumptions regarding the insertions of Agents via the AC Order as all Agent related information (e.g. Orders) has yet to be 'officially' released to the masses. When RTG releases the information on what Agents can do and how we order them to do so, I will gladly continue to debate with you on this topic. Regards, -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWillard Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 Using your line of reasoning the player could just wait until after the AC onto the incoming fleet before 'emptying out' the fleet the Legendary Character was originally assigned to. What if the incoming fleet is not going to arrive for a few turns and I want the rest of the ships to move on? There are legitimate reasons to leave a character in an empty fleet. That's not the problem. The problem is being able to zip the character across the galaxy by using the decf. So we need a solution that fixes the actual problem, not one that creates others. Plain and simple. You try to decf a fleet with a character, the order fails. If you don't want your order to fail, then it is up to you when, where, and how you transfer the character out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 While you (and others) may want to leave Characters behind in empty fleets, some people don't want to have to spend two orders to move ships and characters from one fleet to the next, especially if you are 'emptying' out one of the fleets. Those people do not want their Characters 'orphaned' due to an RN Order or other means. Part of the problem is how the report is laid out. If you are leafing through your Fleet Reports, there is nothing to tell you if there is or is not a Legendary Character with the Fleet. There is no passenger manifest, per se. Bouncing back to the original issue, I'm not against having a check on the DECF order that causes it to fail if there is one or more LCs still attached to the Fleet and tells me so. I'm arguing that the paradigm in SN:ROTE should be no Characters in empty fleets. Right now, the paradigm is that Characters can not only be in empty fleets, but in non-existent ones as well. You're arguing that Characters should not be allowed to be in non-existent fleets, but should be allowed to be in empty fleets. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I am saying that I disagree. My paradigm shift 'solves' your issue as well as the 'orphaning' of Characters issue. You don't see the 'orphaning' of Characters as a problem which needs to be solved, ergo, no need to change the paradigm to that degree. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWillard Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 Right, the original issue was how to fix an apparant loophole that allows you to instantaneously zip characters across the galaxy. The problem you seem to be arguing involves the efficiency and streamlining of orders (RN and AC in this case). Though somewhat related, that's really a separate issue. I would be all for the RN order allowing you to specify if you want to bring the characters along with the ships. However, if you want to leave a character in an empty fleet you should be able to do that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 Actually, the original issue was about not leaving characters behind when you emptied out a fleet with an RN. I brought up the DECF/NEWF loophole ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWillard Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 My bad. I'll move on to another thread then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 S'Okay ... as long as the loophole gets closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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