Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 I've seen posted on the forum various formulae for figuring out how many of what kinds of thrust engines you needed to get certain APs out of certain sizes of ships. I've finally gotten to the point that I could choose to have more than 2 of those thingies per ship, but I've no mind for numbers. Is there some sort of excel spreadsheet or somesuch that would help a mathmatically challenged cat figure out her ships? I suppose the only other option is to build HUGE, slow ships... -Sha'thar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 (# of engines * thrust of engines)/Weight of ship = AP In excel Cell A = # of engines Cell B = Thrust of engine Cell C = Cell A * Cell B Cell D = 100* Cell A (weight of engines) Cell E = Rest of ship weight Cell F = B/(D+E) Example 8 MK II Fusion Engines (Cell A) 2000 thrust per engine (cell 16000 thrust (cell C) 800 tons (Cell D 8*100) 200 tons (100 fuel tankage + MK I Nuclear Jump Drive) Cell F: 16000/1000 = 16AP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Another way to look at this is how many engines I need to achieve a desired AP. Engines = (AP Desired * Base Weight of ship) / (Thrust of an Engine - AP Desired * Weight per engine). SO lets say you designed a ship that weighs in at 20,000 tons with no engines (the Base Weight) and you want it to go 5 AP using Mk I Fusion Engines. E = (5 * 20,000 tons) / (1000 tons - 5 * 100 tons) E = (100,000 tons) / (500 tons) E = 200 So a 20,000 base weight ship requires 200 Mk I Fusion Engines to reach 5 AP. Does this work out? 200 Engines is 200,000 thrust. Total ship weight is now 20,000 tons + 200 * 100 for the engines = 40,000 tons. 200,000 / 40,000 = 5 AP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 I wrote a very windy post on this in another section - turtle strategy I think. http://rollingthundergames.ipbhost.com/ind...topic=387&st=15 I even broke down different steps on how to do it. WKE and I use a similar method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr Posted January 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 That seems relatively straight-forward. Thank you all! I'll have to give it a try this turn! -Sha'thar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr Posted January 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 A thought. When performing the calculation with carriers, you would need to know the maximum -loaded- weight of the ship, wouldn't you? And for Cargo ships, would you need to figure in cargo mass? Or are things less complicated than that? -Sha'thar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 For Carriers it is the Fighter Bay (not the fighters) for weight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krelnett_of_Kraan Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Same with cargo. Empty speed and loaded speed are the same. Thank the Gods for small favors, neh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octagon999 Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 What would be REALLY useful, would be a formula that would project how many engines would be needed for x number of AP's based on a core weight of Y, that takes into account the additional weight that the added engines contribute to the final design z. Without knowing the final weight of the ship in advance. Right now, I have to plug in a guestimate weight, then fill out the ship. Wow, need more engines, oops, now its heavier. Don't want to reduce the tonnage of other systems, so... increase the number of engines. Now its even heavier, so you end up spending quite a bit of time figuring out how many engines are required to compensate for the additional weight of the engines... Is there anyway to come up with a formula in Excel for this situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 This is next on my list. I am using variables atm. I hope to have time for this soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr Posted January 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 OK. I've come up with a sample design for a fast explorer specifically for sniffing around large systems. Please note that the design will change a bit, so this is not indicitive of Gosht Kohr ship designs! 'Curious Cheetah' Quick Survey Ship 1) Mk I Jump Engine - 100 tons 1) Mk II Warp Survey Sensor- 5000 tons 1) Mk I Med. Range Sensor- 100 tons 1000 Fuel Tankage- 1000 tons 1) Survey Lander- 600 tons 1) Mk II Computer Sys- 100 tons 1) Type A Science lab- 1000 tons 100 Standard Hull plates- 100 tons 10) Mk I Force Sheilds- 1000 tons 5) 10cm Gauss Guns- 1000 tons TOTAL- 10,000 tons I want to give it 8 APs ( NM, PMAP, ORB, GEO, NM, PMAP, ORB, GEO) I have Mk III Fission Engines, weighing 100 tons and giving 1000 tons thrust. E = {8 * 10,000}/{1000-{8*100}} E = 80,000/{1000-800} E = 80,000/200 E = 400 So the 'Curious Cheetah' will need 400 Type III Fission Engines to make 8 APs. How did I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Yikes.......badly... There are no MK III Fission Engines. There are MK III Nukes at which point you would be dead on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr Posted January 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Yes, I meant Mk III Nuclear Engines. I've gotten into the habit of calling them fission engines, as opposed to the fusion engines. Using the turn entry program to NUD the ships, so this isn't a factor. -Sha'thar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 What would be REALLY useful, would be a formula that would project how many engines would be needed for x number of AP's based on a core weight of Y, that takes into account the additional weight that the added engines contribute to the final design z. Without knowing the final weight of the ship in advance. Right now, I have to plug in a guestimate weight, then fill out the ship. Wow, need more engines, oops, now its heavier. Don't want to reduce the tonnage of other systems, so... increase the number of engines. Now its even heavier, so you end up spending quite a bit of time figuring out how many engines are required to compensate for the additional weight of the engines... Is there anyway to come up with a formula in Excel for this situation? Quick and dirty, try this. =ROUNDUP((AP*(M-TEAI))/(T1E-(AP*M1E)),) Where AP = Action points desired M = Current mass TEAI = Tonnage of engines already included in M T1E = Thrust of 1 engine M1E = Mass of 1 engine Will yield the total number of engines required, including those already included in M. Only handles one type of engine. You can mount several different types of engines on the same ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 nice...why the TEAI...what is that for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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