Octus Imperium Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Once the Octus Imperium starts buiding with Improved Construction Materials, do we need to keep an inventory of regular CM's? If there is no additional cost over regular CM's, we'd rather build stuff with Improved CM's and not bother with regular CM inventory. (Same goes for refined crystals vs. Improved refined, etc.) Or do old installations and such still need regular CM's exclusively, thus requiring inventory? Octus Imperium (Sure wish we'd get a handful of tech advances EVERY turn.....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuth Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Even if you get some of these nifty new installations, you're still going to need Con. Materials to build your mines, the various science and military installations and other installations. All depends on what you're building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted February 15, 2004 Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 I would stockpile 1M Improved CMs from day one (if you can't build them then stockpile the Iron/Lumber). 1,000,000 = 2000 Improved ICs and you can make some 400k of them...Much resources needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octus Imperium Posted February 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 Even if you get some of these nifty new installations, you're still going to need Con. Materials to build your mines, the various science and military installations and other installations. All depends on what you're building. True, but could I use Improved CMs to build, say, iron mines? Why bother with storing normal CM? This assumes the same number of resources are need for each advanced type. In other words, if a colony world has ONLY Improved Construction Materials shipped in, could the colony build an iron mine? I may try this if no one has tested it before. Octus Imperium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octus Imperium Posted February 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2004 I would stockpile 1M Improved CMs from day one (if you can't build them then stockpile the Iron/Lumber). 1,000,000 = 2000 Improved ICs and you can make some 400k of them...Much resources needed. Good advice. The never ending need for MORE resources! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 You will have more standard CM's than you can use once you start to upgrade to better stripmines and industries. If you need them now, then I would just scap a few industries for the CM's. Not having enough CM's is only a short term problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 You probably have enough CM stockpiled to last until you have better IC or Stripmines (they both are the same in terms of value). Once you have them your Improved IC does 750 (intake) v. 250 Intake and you can build 2 (leaving 1 pop and 500 CM) free and make your economy more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octus Imperium Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Had not considered the possible flood of CM's from upgraded/replaced industries. Since POP is not an issue for us (yet), not sure we'll be retooling much in the near future. However, will now reconsider the number of regular CM's built. Many thanks for the excellent advice. I'm buying the next round at the StarBar of your choice. Octus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Pop should be an issue. You make 800+ as a max reproducer. 10 Turns of 50 berthings and then convert them to 6AP ships and boom 1500 a turn. Deficit time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokmok Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 How on earth do you have so much production to both convert 500 Colonial Berthings ships to 6 AP and at the same time producing cargo bays for the materials produced by the mines. In my calculation it takes 4-5 turns (based on 90mill RM´s of production) totally devoted to engine construction to give 500 CB`s 6 AP´s. (I base it on MK II fusion engines). Is that your strategy to get as many colonists out as possible and the worry about the cargo reqirements later??? Tokmok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 How on earth do you have so much production to both convert 500 Colonial Berthings ships to 6 AP and at the same time producing cargo bays for the materials produced by the mines. Tokmok Probably just uses the production left over after building 1,500 Improved Industrial Complexes every turn in order to free up the 750,000 Construction Materials every turn to ship out to the colonies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I did not convert all 500 in one turn. Been working at it for a few turns. Just got 100% done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octus Imperium Posted February 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Pop should be an issue. You make 800+ as a max reproducer. 10 Turns of 50 berthings and then convert them to 6AP ships and boom 1500 a turn. Deficit time. After ten processed turns, I am no where near running out of Pop. At over 650 per turn and attempting to max out production with 'old' facilities, Pop is not yet a limiting factor. Yes, it will become one, but until then, other items at limiting. I am trying to build a surplus of Berths, but they take a while. And without more advanced engines (working on production capabilities at present), AP 4 is still a dream, let alone AP 6. And still trying to avoid order errors and get three colonies started within 1 warp of home. Then I get to recreate my error experiences with convoy orders. What's am Emperor to do? And do you think I'd get a scientist now and then with my exploration advantages? Noooo, just more diplomats, martial artists and detectives. Sorry, late night whinning is setting in. And I pay for this enjoyment?!?! YOU BET! Octus Imperium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Ignoring all the bragging and obfuscation, I just look at it like this. If produced from Raw Resources, one CM costs the same as one ICM, 90 RR. That means for most empires using standard industry / stripmines that they can produce roughly 1 million CM/ICM per turn if that's practically all they do. At 500 CM / industry, that means a starting empire can produce enough CM's to employ about 2,000 pop per turn if they dedicate almost their entire production to that task. Yes, resource mines, colonies, careful tuning of the economy, building improved industry, etc. will mean most can produce a bit more, but that's close enough for decision making using nice round numbers and is balanced out by other minimal needs. All but the most extreme will want to spend a least a little of their production on other things anyway. Until you employ every single unit of population, you can't really have excess CM/ICM. If you are the above mentioned max reproduction race producing 800 pop per turn, that's going to cost you roughly 800/2,000 = 40% of your empire's production just to employ the new growth each turn (regardless of whether it's standard or improved industry, and regardless of where those pop end up). That'll very slowly get cheaper as a percentage over time as improved industries come on line, but 40% is close enough for this discussion since I've not factored in CM's for power plants (basically 10% more CM's for simple fusion planets). So the question is, what percentage of your economy are you willing to invest in CM's/ICM's? Do the math on return on investment and decide how you want to allocate your limited production. Don't forget that warships are an investment as well; an investment in keeping your empire from being conquered by someone that doesn't spend most of their production on CM's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sssarass Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Paradign, Yesss you possse an interesssting quessstion. One thought is to keep upping your production bassse until you have the level of (enginesss, weaponsss, armor, ssshieldsss, defenssse, etc...) asss you can not disssmantle a Mk I Nuclear Engine or conssstruction materialsss to rebuild asss Mk II Fussssssion Enginesss or Improved Conssstruction Materialsss. Or the other thought isss to turtle you ssstufff as bassse materialsss until you have reached your tech level to what you want to build (to me a sssort of boring way to sssit on you butt for a year at leassst, do you then wait until you have the tech needed to build sssomething with advanced materialsss....). Or my final thought the one that I ussse isss to do sssome stockpiling until I get a tech that I want to ussse my materialsss on (improved indussstrial complex), build sssome of what I can currently and invessst sssome in improving my economic bassse production. You are right that one ssshould be worried about finding more aggresssive neighborsss, but ssshould they have sent out ssshipsss with level 1 or 2 tech to find you and you can then flip to build a ssship with level 3 or 4 the sssame sssize who would win? A friend of mine doesss sssubssscribe to the thought that he would rather find the aggresssive neighbor asss far from hiss home sssystem asss he possssssible can to give him time to flip to a wartime economy, a thought I do agree with. Regardsss, CTO Sssarasss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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