Clan Elder 'Keen Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 A senario: Let's say you run an empire that decided to do that spiffy new Revolution order when it was first introduced since you had botched your initial political set-up back before the character rules were updated. That means your top leader was beheaded and a new leader crowned. You lost a Diplomat since that is the default character type. Now some turns later you bump into a nice friendly face and want to cement your budding relationship with a PAP. Looking down your character list that is nearly or perhaps slightly over a page long, you realize to your horror that there is not a single Diplomat in your roster. Given the Diplomat colocation aspect of PAPs, it looks like you could be screwed for the time being, unable to broker a deal. Shame on you? Or should the political system have more options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octagon999 Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 I would think that the existing head of state, regardless, should ALWAYS be able to execute a PAP. But I see what you are talking about, re: revolution and killing off of the one sure diplomat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 It would make sense that any leader of an empire should have some innate Diplomacy skill since as leader of the Empire his ability to make agreements is inherent in his position. On the other hand, if you execute an order whose consequences you did not consider then you have to view it as either a learning experence or a screw up or both. Of course I am only a couple of turns into this game but I have already had several learning experiences. (I know that there are lots of unknown consequences in SN ROTE due to holes in the rules but I dont think this scenario falls into that category.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 I seem to recall some converstaion with Pete that suggested that the new leader was just as good as the old leader as far as that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 I'd recommend trying the PAP order anyway....... Provided you've actually met the empire, I doubt there'd be a problem..... Lord High Senescal to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Ouch! No Diplomats? I hope you have a fast ship for your Emperor (or whatever the appropriate Title is for your people). I thought having only three, counting my 'Emperor', was bad. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted July 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Actually I am not Diplomat-less. Very close though. The above is a "senario", as stated, to foster a discussion of rule mechanics. I did in fact do a revolution recently and now my head honcho is an "Army Officer". Can he function like a diplomat and do PAPs? I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 I'd have to dig through the board archives, but I believe that the Honorable Ur-Lord is correct in saying that whomever is your Supreme Leader can also function as a Diplomat with regard to Interstellar Diplomacy. Of course, I have only used actual Diplomat class LCs, so I have no proof that this is the case. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 I'd have to dig through the board archives, but I believe that the Honorable Ur-Lord is correct in saying that whomever is your Supreme Leader can also function as a Diplomat with regard to Interstellar Diplomacy. Of course, I have only used actual Diplomat class LCs, so I have no proof that this is the case. -SK :lol: Actually, our esteemed leader was alluding to something else...... You probably don't need to move the leader/diplomat at all! Just try the order and see if it works........ Lord High Seneschal to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughestrog Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 I thought your leader was also a diplomat- mine seems happy enough dealing with strife with the miners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krelnett_of_Kraan Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Your initial leader is a diplomat, regardless of government, but if you issue a REVO, your replacement may very well not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 I'd have to dig through the board archives, but I believe that the Honorable Ur-Lord is correct in saying that whomever is your Supreme Leader can also function as a Diplomat with regard to Interstellar Diplomacy. Of course, I have only used actual Diplomat class LCs, so I have no proof that this is the case. -SK :lol: Actually, our esteemed leader was alluding to something else...... You probably don't need to move the leader/diplomat at all! Just try the order and see if it works........ Lord High Seneschal to Ur-Lord Tedric If you are inferring that any LC will do ... <--- This is what I get for reading the Rules ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 I'd have to dig through the board archives, but I believe that the Honorable Ur-Lord is correct in saying that whomever is your Supreme Leader can also function as a Diplomat with regard to Interstellar Diplomacy. Of course, I have only used actual Diplomat class LCs, so I have no proof that this is the case. -SK :lol: Actually, our esteemed leader was alluding to something else...... You probably don't need to move the leader/diplomat at all! Just try the order and see if it works........ Lord High Seneschal to Ur-Lord Tedric If you are inferring that any LC will do ... <--- This is what I get for reading the Rules ... :lol: No, I think the PAP is working now precisely as the Powers That Be intended it too..... If you have actually met the empire in question, you should be able to execute the PAP order, with, or without, the presence of any Characters.... Lord High Senescal to Ur-Lord Tedric PS - this is, however, the perfect time to re-ask for a permanent listing of empire relationships, perhaps two-way - or an order to find it out (like the TREE order) - or perhaps making use of the Empire Table in the database (mdb file), so we could see it purselves????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 Really? I will be extremely upset, if I waited (wasted) many turns to get Diplomats to meet in the same location when I didn't need to. Here's the quote from the Rules Addenda Post: PAP (Political Action Proposal) You can set any level of alliance you like with this order, which is used primarily to allow for complex Rules of Engagement fleet settings. You must have a diplomat-class Legendary Character located at the same place as a diplomat of the target empire (either on the same world or with co-located fleets). The level of alliance you choose is one-way: that is, you can indicated that you treat the other empire as an “alliance”, but he could do a PAP order and set a relationship with your empire as a “trade pact”. Both parties do not need to issue PAP orders at the same time. One could issue a PAP and the other does not ever have to reciprocate. PAP, [Empire #], [Agreement] Seems pretty clear to me. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octagon999 Posted July 15, 2004 Report Share Posted July 15, 2004 I will be extremely upset, if I waited (wasted) many turns to get Diplomats to meet in the same location when I didn't need to. Given the list of things to worry about, this certainly would not be high on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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