Action points

[Emporer Magara]

Im trying to design a ship with more than 2 action point. Last turn I sumited a 10,000 ton design with 10 Mk 1 Nuclear Engines. Thats 10% of tonnage and still the ship only had 2 action points.

 

The rule book (if you can call it that) says if you want more action points simply and more engines.

 

So I guess what im asking for is a formula to figure out how many engines on a given tonnage you need to get more action points

 

Thanks for the help

Emporer Magara of the Aslan Hierate #511

[lugal]

I don't now the formula off the top of my head. But I'm guessing you need like at least 100 MK I's to get over 2 ap per 10,000 ton. Most of us found out the hard way that you will be wasting IC's and resourses to make 3 or 4 AP ships with first or second gen tech. Just think how many more ships you can build if you just limit the number of engines to just 1. The only item I make exrta parts for my exploration ships is JSS. Just use your Pathfiders until you get MK I or MK II JSS. I put at least 2 MK II JSS on my exploration ships. They are heavy and consume alot of resourses. The other guys here will correct my math and give you additional tips. If you are new to the game, welcome and good luck. I hope to enslave your empire soon. Which will be in 2 years or so, about the time I get MK II Fusion Engines. :lol:

[GsssShsst]

You're going to need a lot more than 10 MkI Nuclear Engines Just to get 3AP. In the player aids section of rollingthunder.com-

 

(http://www.rollingthunder.com/supernova/SNFTP2.htm)

 

there is a Starter Items and Installations file, provided courtesy of the GSL Alliance. In it MkI Nuke Engines are listed at a thrust rating of 300 each.

 

I believe the equation would be (#of MkI engines X 300)/total ship tonnage = AP

 

So, theoretically, just to get 3AP, you would need to put about 120 MkI engines to your basic pathfinder design. Personally, I'd rather build more Pathfinders until I researched the engine upgrades, I just got MkI Fusion, and I think I'll wait until MkII Fusion before I try for 3AP

[WKE235]

Assuming all the engines on your ship are the same type, this formula works well:

 

Engines Required = (AP * Base Ship Tonnage with no Engines) / (Thrust per Engine - AP * Weight per Engine). (Always round this number up if there are any decimal places).

 

Example: Let's say I've designed a ship that has a Base tonnage of 1000 tons with no engines. I want this ship to have 3 AP per turn. And, being advanced, I'm using Mk II Nuclear Engines with 500 Thrust per engine, each engine weighing in at 100 tons. This gives Engines = (3 * 1000) / (500 - 3 * 100) = 3000 / 200 = 15. So, I would need 15 engines.

 

Does this check out? 15 engines = 1500 tons, meaning the final ship weight is 2500 tons. 15 engines at 500 Thrust per engine = 7500 Thrust. AP = Integer (Thrust / Ship Weight) = Int (7500 / 2500) = 3. Perfect.

 

The term Integer means that in the AP calcs used by RTG, any decimal places are dropped. No rounding in this formula. Lets try 14 engines. 14 = 1400 tons = 2400 tons for the ship. 14 * 500 = 7000 Thrust. AP = Int (7000 / 2400) = Int( 2.917 ) = 2

 

Using this forumula you can see one interesting thing. The higher the number of AP's you want, the closer the term Thrust - AP * Weight per Engine gets to 0. So each engine type has a theoretical maximum number of AP's you can reach. At AP = Engine Thrust / Engine Weight, the term will become 0 and you need an infinate amoung of engines, so the AP must be less than this value. AP's are always whole numbers. So the maximum AP's an engine can produce for you is equal to RoundUp((Thrust per Engine / Weight per Engine) - 1), where Roundup means any decimal places are rounded UP to the next integer number .. 2.1 becomes 3 for example. Following this:

 

Mk I Nuclear Engine, 300 Thurst, 100 tons == Roundup((300/100)-1) = 2 AP's Max

Mk II Nuclear Engine, 500 Thrust, 100 tons =- Roundup((500/100)-1) = 4 AP's Max

 

Etcetrera....

 

SO .. using MK I Nuclear Engines, you can never, ever, reach 3 AP's.

[Ur Lord Tedric]

Yes, the important point is that you should go for the exact AP you want. Any fractions are wasted for AP's in relation to orders. However, we don't know if the 'manoeuverability' equation in combat uses fractions. That might be logical???

 

And lastly, it is possible to have a 3 AP ship with Mk I engines, it's not not very useful except in your HW. You can have a design that's just 10 Mk I Nuclear Engines (now that the 1,000 ton design bit is fixed). It will happily achieve 3 AP and could be used for PMAP, GEO et al.

 

Chief Planner to Ur-Lord Tedric

[RTGPete]

Fractions are dropped for Action Point calculations, but decimal values for maneuverability are used in naval combat.

[hobknob]

Here is how I look at AP's. If your ship is 100% engines you get the listed rating of the engine/100. So Mk I nuclear has a rating of 300/100 = 3 AP's

Mk II Nuclear 500/100 = 5

Mk I fusion 1000/100 = 10

 

Then it becomes a percentage formula, 100% engines yields 100 AP's, 50% engine yields 50% APs and so on. For my designs with Mk I Fusions I want a 6 AP ships so I will have to include 60% total mass of the ship as Mk I Fusion Engines.

 

I personally don't find much value in building high AP ships with less than Mk III nuclear or Mk I fusion engines.

[Emporer Magara]

Thanks for the advice and formulas. They are a big help.

 

Also thanks for the welcome lugal and we will see who enslaved!

[woolfe99]

Uh, just take the total thrust of all engines and divide by ship tonnage, rounding down, and that's your AP's. No need to be complicatd.