Ground Combat questions 2

[Prospective]

More questions about ground combat.

 

Per the rulebook, there are 35 ground combat tactical ratings. Every unit has a numerical value assigned to each of these ratings, ranging from 0 to 10. Since this is a multiplier, a higher value indicates that a unit is more proficient in a particular rating.

 

In addition, all setups start the game with a number of beginning ground combat technologies (Sword, Battleaxe, Armored Car, etc). Each one of these techs has a tactical rating value associated with it (for instance, Armored Car has a poor [100] rating in "Armor Strength" and a poor [100] rating in "Open Terrain").

 

To use an example, let's say that an empire has constructed a single "Imperial Guards Armor" unit (1 Antitank, 6 Armor, 3 Open Terrain).

 

1st question:

 

Would the results of a TAC order be:

Armor: 600 (6 "unit rating" * 100 "Armored Car Armor tech rating" = 600)

Open Terrain: 300 (3 "unit rating" * 100 "Armored Car Open Terrain tech rating" = 300)

 

OR

 

Due to the fact that "Armored Car" technology has a tactical rating in 2 categories (Armor and Open Terrain), would the results be:

 

Armor: 300 (6 "unit rating" * 100/2 "Armored Car Armor tech rating/2 ratings values for this tech" = 300)

Open Terrain: 150 (3 "unit rating" * 100/2 "Armored Car Armor tech rating/2 ratings for this tech" = 150)

 

2nd question: How do racial ground combat bonuses affect the above calculations?

 

3rd question: How do special characters affect the above calculations?

 

 

Now, let's say the above empire studied hard and made a tech breakthrough in Light Tank (fair "Armor" strength [300] and fair "Open Terrain" strength [300]). Instead of a multiplier of 100 in Armor and Open Terrain, you would ADD the two techs (100 for Armored Car and 300 for Light Tank) and use a multiplier of 400 in "Armor" and "Open Terrain". So, the results of a TAC order would be:

 

Armor: 2400 (6 * (100+300))

Open Terrain: 1200 (3 * (100+300))

 

4th question: Are the above calculations correct?

 

Lets say that the above unit is dropped on an enemy planet. I realize this is unlikely, but lets say that the enemy unit is exactly the same (Imperial Guards Armor) and that the opponent has the same technology, the same ground combat bonuses, the same racial characteristics and the same rank commander.

 

5th question(s): How is combat resolved? Does RTG add up the numbers (2400+1200) = 3600 and compare it with the enemy numbers? In this case, you'd have 3600pts vs. 3600pts, so who would win? Or, are the categories separated, so RTG would compare 1200 Open Terrain vs. 1200 Open Terrain and 2400 Armor vs. 2400 Armor? Can anyone shed some insight on this scenario? Can a ground unit be "damaged" or is it an all or nothing result?

 

Thanks.

[Clan Elder 'Keen]

It gets a little clearer once you have a ground combat result to look over, but there are still some combat shift and casualty modifiers that are not overly enlightening as to the how and why things are happening as they do.

 

If you are looking for TAC info, the best way to do it is build some divisions and create some armies and see for yourself what kind of ratings you are getting.

 

There are no partial casualties, either the division lives or it dies.

[Prospective]

Thanks for the reply Clan Elder 'Keen. I'll build some units to see how the TAC ratings work out. I did a TAC of existing Home Guard #1 this last turn, but I should have separated them into 4 separate armies rather than a single group.

 

However, I'm more interested in determining if my understanding of ground combat is as I set forth in my post. Which version of my calculations is correct?

 

As far as things getting clearer once I get the results of actual ground combat, my preference is to have an understanding of how a victor is determined BEFORE I get into an actual ground combat situation. I mean, are the results from a TAC compared with the results of the other armies TAC and the one with the larger total numbers is victorious? Any insight is definitely appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[Clan Elder 'Keen]

I mean, are the results from a TAC compared with the results of the other armies TAC and the one with the larger total numbers is victorious?

 

 

Yes and no. Tac ratings are based on your most advanced tech advance for each category (this info directly out of rulebook). All of these categories are compared and this creates a shift in combat odds. Then that odds shift is applied to firepower of your army (somehow, I am still not 100% clear on this process) and and you get a report of how many divisions you lose and how many divisions the other guy loses.

 

The long and the short of it is with all other things being equal, such as racial advantages and tech, you better attack with more divisions than the other guy or you are going to get beat.

[Prospective]

One thing I'm still not clear on is the tech advances. You state that TAC ratings are based off the most advanced tech for each category. However, when I did a TAC on my starting army, the TAC numbers work out only if I add the numbers, not merely take the highest tech level, so I wonder if the rules are incorrect....

 

Anyway, I think I am beginning to understand how the TAC ratings work. The thing that remains unclear is how those TAC ratings are used to determine which side of a combat is victorious.

 

How do the TAC ratings translate into offensive and defensive ratings?

 

How do special characters factor in?

 

How does the racial GCB factor in?

 

Do you (or anyone out there) have a Ground Combat Battle Report (suitably censored of course) that you'd mind sharing? If there were enough of them posted it might help to clarify things. Just a thought.

 

Thanks again.

[Locklyn]

The problem with ground combat is the same as with space combat even though space combat is slowly getting clearer through our collective nagging for rules. This has been extensively discussed in many of the groupings in the game and in our alliance as well .Ground Combat is basically Black Box "Rock-Scissor-Paperbag" untill we actually can see the effect listed in the battlereports and tacs for (summation by LL extrapolation by me)

 

1) Racial Modifiers:

This is not present in FOBs or TACs either nor in combat reports and is a gross oversight

 

2) Installation Modifiers:

Both on the world both for training purposes and the pure combat installations such as field fortifications. This is lacking for the Naval combat reports as well as there is no way of knowing if building all those "One needed in the Empire/System/World" military installations actually does ANYTHING

 

3) Legendary Characters present in combat:

These are usually only shown in Petes description of the battle if any, not what they actually do to affect combat

 

4) Effect of the offensive order vs the defensive orders for the armies:

So you had nuclear release vs their massed assault, now what does that actually mean in odds etc???

 

5) Other misc effects:

Such as attrition for the attacking forces for a world grossly different than their own.

 

I think these are all reasonable requests for information that we should have when we deal with such a complex game and such a complex and expensive in real money, undertaking as invasions. Now many just build as many divisions as possible covering all their techs and hope for the best...not satisfactory...

 

Cheers

 

/Locklyn

[hobknob]

Don't worry about the details just build a wide variety of divisions. They never get outdated and then you will have them when you want/need them. It is kind of a pain to build 20-30 divisions from scratch in the middle of a war.

[ShadowKitsune]

Don't worry about the details just build a wide variety of divisions.  They never get outdated and then you will have them when you want/need them.  It is kind of a pain to build 20-30 divisions from scratch in the middle of a war.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

While I certainly appreciate that philosophy, I am noticing a trend in the game of "all ignorance can be overcome by mass" approach. This is not a trend that I am enjoying. In an effort not to be too vague, two examples of this trend are: Space Combat and Ground Combat.

 

Space Combat - Big Battlewagons with Hordes of 1000-ton "Swarm" Ships. Admittedly, not the best fleet formation for Offense, but apparently awesome on defense. Has anyone, or any team, taken out a non-dropped position?

 

Ground Combat - Build some of everything in large quantities and swarm over your enemies like a Cossack charge. This, of course, assumes that you have found a dropped position that you can GATK.

 

This, to me, has all of the flavor of RISK. I have all these interesting options apparently available to me, but since I need a decoder ring, an oracular pig and copies of the White-Weber books to make any sense of them. I'm left with using strategies and tactics that were considered "old school" by Sun Tzu.

 

The only upside to the whole thing is that in the 78+ turns that the Q Republic has been around, I've only encountered three other empires, and they've been civil. So warfare hasn't been a problem and trade hasn't really blossomed, either.

 

Sorry, for the off-topic tangential rant, but what I was trying to get at is the state of documentation for SN:ROTE still saddens and frustrates me. What's worse is that I have no positive suggestions on how to improve it.

 

FWIW,

-SK

[Ur Lord Tedric]

Sorry, for the off-topic tangential rant, but what I was trying to get at is the state of documentation for SN:ROTE still saddens and frustrates me.  What's worse is that I have no positive suggestions on how to improve it. 

 

FWIW,

-SK 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, we certainly cannot disagree with that sentiment - it is the major current detractor.......

 

ULT - in the flesh!

[LenLorek]

ULT - in the flesh!

 

I feel honored. I had thought that Ur-Lord Tedric was the name of a committee rather than an actual fleshy person.

 

Or a person too mega-important to stoop to our level and appear to us personally!

[ShadowKitsune]

And when you can shock a plant to the point of dropping his jaw, you've done something.

 

-SK

[ali-t-akua]

And when you can shock a plant to the point of dropping his jaw, you've done something. 

 

-SK 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would really be impressed if we could get a kitsune out of the shadows. Then we will have really accomplished something.

[EternusIV]

And when you can shock a plant to the point of dropping his jaw, you've done something.

 

Especially 2 of them! LOL ULT.

[ShadowKitsune]

And when you can shock a plant to the point of dropping his jaw, you've done something.

 

Especially 2 of them! LOL ULT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's just piling on!

 

-SK