ShadowKitsune Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 "Paris Hilton getting elected Chancellor of Germany " It's odd. I didn't know that "Angela Merkel" was Paris Hilton. Why did she change name? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In all seriousness, please look at the original full quote earlier in the thread. In all lack of seriousness, Chancellor Merkel decided that becoming Chancellor Hilton would make Germany seem more "hip" and "edgy" during the EU Conferences ... -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 "Paris Hilton getting elected Chancellor of Germany " It's odd. I didn't know that "Angela Merkel" was Paris Hilton. Why did she change name? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In all seriousness, please look at the original full quote earlier in the thread. In all lack of seriousness, Chancellor Merkel decided that becoming Chancellor Hilton would make Germany seem more "hip" and "edgy" during the EU Conferences ... -SK <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now that is funny. On the topic at hand, then it would seem that it doesn't really matter what the ultimate tech is, now matter what you will encounter *thousands* of screens. I feel sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Ah, there's life in the old boards yet! Sorry SK, we didn't mean to tweak your nose Whilst we're more than happy to try and come up with Sci-Fi type references - and to us the 'screenship' analogy has most recently been seen with the Weber-White set against the 'Bhaaaawgs' and the defensive minefields that just had to cleared by many waves of suicidal bug assault ships.... But we also accept it as a game mechanic intended to produce a result. The results, to our minds at least, are two-fold: 1) A played HW 'maximising' its screenship production is a hard nut to crack - as it should be. Played for many years - it should never be an easy target. But every shipyard slip is 100 Stripmines not producing......... 2) It encourages mixed-ship fleets and brings time, planning and logistics to fleet operations. Having a single big uber ship won't be the 'win button' as it most often is. Having a purely TWD-equipped fleet will mean ships much bigger than the average 'screenship'. Bringing your own screenships along is a long term and/or logistic nightmare. All mean more options and things to consider. All in all it's not a bad system - all we desperately want to know are: a- What's the battle system supposed to be - Naval Combat Supplement? b- Does it work - analysable Naval Battle Reports? c- Can we design our ships interpreting 'a' and see the effect in 'b'? 4 years in - sounds fair to me. At the moment it's still a bit murky. More murky than we think it should be. Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric and the entire and unanimous War College Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 - all we desperately want to know are: a) What's the battle system supposed to be - Naval Combat Supplement? Does it work - analysable Naval Battle Reports? c) Can we design our ships interpreting (a) and see the effect in (? 4 years in - sounds fair to me. At the moment it's still a bit murky. More murky than we think it should be. Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric and the entire and unanimous War College <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 I enjoy the discussions with most of the folks on the RTG Boards, including you Ur Lord. I agree with your three points as well. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 I enjoy the discussions with most of the folks on the RTG Boards, including you Ur Lord. I agree with your three points as well. -SK <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh crap...agreement! Now what do we do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Just change sides. Seems to work well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 I enjoy the discussions with most of the folks on the RTG Boards, including you Ur Lord. I agree with your three points as well. -SK <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh crap...agreement! Now what do we do? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't worry, it is only temporary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 I enjoy the discussions with most of the folks on the RTG Boards, including you Ur Lord. I agree with your three points as well. -SK <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh crap...agreement! Now what do we do? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't worry, it is only temporary. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok...so the matrix is relatively stable then. Whew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Xaar Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Well, I believe that means Hobknob's HW is invulnerable. I hope I never have to fight you. Lord Uriel <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know about 'invulnerable', but 'nigh invulnerable' certainly... I certainly wouldn't want to fight him either. -LX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Xaar Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Ah, there's life in the old boards yet! Sorry SK, we didn't mean to tweak your nose Whilst we're more than happy to try and come up with Sci-Fi type references - and to us the 'screenship' analogy has most recently been seen with the Weber-White set against the 'Bhaaaawgs' and the defensive minefields that just had to cleared by many waves of suicidal bug assault ships.... But we also accept it as a game mechanic intended to produce a result. The results, to our minds at least, are two-fold: 1) A played HW 'maximising' its screenship production is a hard nut to crack - as it should be. Played for many years - it should never be an easy target. But every shipyard slip is 100 Stripmines not producing......... 2) It encourages mixed-ship fleets and brings time, planning and logistics to fleet operations. Having a single big uber ship won't be the 'win button' as it most often is. Having a purely TWD-equipped fleet will mean ships much bigger than the average 'screenship'. Bringing your own screenships along is a long term and/or logistic nightmare. All mean more options and things to consider. All in all it's not a bad system - all we desperately want to know are: a- What's the battle system supposed to be - Naval Combat Supplement? b- Does it work - analysable Naval Battle Reports? c- Can we design our ships interpreting 'a' and see the effect in 'b'? 4 years in - sounds fair to me. At the moment it's still a bit murky. More murky than we think it should be. Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric and the entire and unanimous War College <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, it is good to see such spirited discussion! It seems the "screenie conundrum" is always a sure-fire bet to get people to post. As is the normal case, the minions of the great ULT are well-spoken and make a good point. The combat system was designed to overcome some of the limitations the system in SN II had where the uber drone strike fleet was King. Pete takes this very seriously as he is sticking to his guns and seeing people drop because the game is "too slow", i.e. you can't just go out and pound someone in a few turns as one could in SN II. That said, I don't think he purposively designed the system to have the screen ship be King. Someone decided to build ships to screen against attack and saw it was effective, and as word spread that it was an effective strategy we are seeing it adopted by most players. One day we will see a battle that effectively neutralizes a screen threat and that strategy will be adopted. I think it is telling that Pete seems to think the screen strategy is a waste of time and resources, but of course he knows the tech path.... At low tech levels the screen strategy is hard to beat, but as we get higher it will be interesting to see how strategy and tactics evolve. The combat system is not broken (ignoring some buggy behavior from time to time) and is achieving its desired purpose. The only problem as I see it is that it has remained very "black box" as Pete tweaks it. We just need to have the finalized naval combat supplement and see the expected behavior in battles... In the meantime we should try to appreciate the screen strategy as a catalyst for wise (cracking) board discussions. -LX ps -- Paris Hilton in charge of Germany?? <shudder> LOL Her personality cult is large enough to qualify as a Federal Republic perhaps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Yes, it is good to see such spirited discussion! It seems the "screenie conundrum" is always a sure-fire bet to get people to post. As is the normal case, the minions of the great ULT are well-spoken and make a good point. The combat system was designed to overcome some of the limitations the system in SN II had where the uber drone strike fleet was King. Pete takes this very seriously as he is sticking to his guns and seeing people drop because the game is "too slow", i.e. you can't just go out and pound someone in a few turns as one could in SN II. That said, I don't think he purposively designed the system to have the screen ship be King. Someone decided to build ships to screen against attack and saw it was effective, and as word spread that it was an effective strategy we are seeing it adopted by most players. One day we will see a battle that effectively neutralizes a screen threat and that strategy will be adopted. I think it is telling that Pete seems to think the screen strategy is a waste of time and resources, but of course he knows the tech path.... At low tech levels the screen strategy is hard to beat, but as we get higher it will be interesting to see how strategy and tactics evolve. The combat system is not broken (ignoring some buggy behavior from time to time) and is achieving its desired purpose. The only problem as I see it is that it has remained very "black box" as Pete tweaks it. We just need to have the finalized naval combat supplement and see the expected behavior in battles... In the meantime we should try to appreciate the screen strategy as a catalyst for wise (cracking) board discussions. -LX <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very well said, Lord Xaar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 I enjoy the discussions with most of the folks on the RTG Boards, including you Ur Lord. I agree with your three points as well. -SK <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh crap...agreement! Now what do we do? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't worry, it is only temporary. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ok...so the matrix is relatively stable then. Whew! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> & & 'whisper, whisper, back room discussion, passing of scribbled notes............' Yes, we shall now play Devil's Advocate and switch back to the other side. " Screenships are bad, bad, bad - very unrealistic - silly things ' huurrrummmmph!!!! But I'll pass one recent thought that has started to seriously mitigate against the 'tiny' screenships. As technology advances - you can't put many, if any, weapons on them, or some of the defences - as they get awfully large per unit!......it forces up the size dramatically if you do. Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric, after sage advice from the Chief Existentialist. PS And yes, it's Monday - as if you all hadn't guessed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughestrog Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 [PS And yes, it's Monday - as if you all hadn't guessed! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And that's a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 But I'll pass one recent thought that has started to seriously mitigate against the 'tiny' screenships. As technology advances - you can't put many, if any, weapons on them, or some of the defences - as they get awfully large per unit!......it forces up the size dramatically if you do. ULT, thats true if you want to build screenships to defend against a specific type of weapon but for most situations screenships are designed to cause your opponent to waste his firepower on them rather than a more strategic target. Any old armor and your best computer are all that is required. Weapons can be Poor or Fair as you don't expect your screenship to last long in a firefight anyway. I think the only thing that will mitigate against screens in the long run will be better FC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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