Combat Problems and a nice fight

[MadMartinB]

Massive battle with the Romans this turn. THERE ARE STILL ISSUES WITH THE BATTLE SYSTEM. PLEASE RESOLVE PRIOR TO RUNNING NEXT TURN. (LOL..as if that will happen)

 

1. My 3,000,000 Tchkon Armor ship shows this:

**DESTROYED** [1211st] BB Screaming Pict (Battleship - 7,339,800 tons) [integrity: 2,000,000,000] (Green, Timid)

8 Fuel Shuttle, 600,000 Fuel Tankage, 4,000 Mk III Antimatter Engine, 2 Mk III Jump Survey Sensor

15,000 Mk VI Computer System, 1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive, 60 Siege Graser, 3,000,000 Tckon 68

Coherent Beam: 126,720,003

 

So I should fire 73 globs of 1.7M or so. And I though the armor was 1000 per 100 tons which should be 3B not 2B. Did I lose 1B of integrety??

 

Also:

Total Defensive Absorbtion by Roman/Valkor is: 1,104,297,880 (1/3 of mine)

Total Offensive Shooting is: 186,457,150

 

In theory I should last 3B/186 = 15 rounds or 10 rounds with the weird #. Without calculating in decreasing shot capacity by Valkor/Roman

 

 

We destroyed: 1210 ships for the following:

defensive strength: 159,096,060

offensive strength: low

 

Deploc locations killed:

location 1: 279 of 483

location 2: 903 of 1433 (valkor strength in this deploc)

we shot at 1 battleship on this row and did heavy damage. 5 of the 1433 where combat ships.

location 3: 29 of 47 (Roman battleships)

location 11: 2 of 2 (old carriers)

 

Did I miscalculate defensive strength of Tchkon? If so I would love to rerun the fight with 3.1B structural integrity.

[Locklyn]

Massive battle with the Romans this turn. THERE ARE STILL ISSUES WITH THE BATTLE SYSTEM. PLEASE RESOLVE PRIOR TO RUNNING NEXT TURN. (LOL..as if that will happen)

 

1. My 3,000,000 Tchkon Armor ship shows this:

**DESTROYED** [1211st] BB Screaming Pict (Battleship - 7,339,800 tons) [integrity: 2,000,000,000] (Green, Timid)

8 Fuel Shuttle, 600,000 Fuel Tankage, 4,000 Mk III Antimatter Engine, 2 Mk III Jump Survey Sensor

15,000 Mk VI Computer System, 1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive, 60 Siege Graser, 3,000,000 Tckon 68

Coherent Beam: 126,720,003

 

So I should fire 73 globs of 1.7M or so. And I though the armor was 1000 per 100 tons which should be 3B not 2B. Did I lose 1B of integrety??

 

Also:

Total Defensive Absorbtion by Roman/Valkor is: 1,104,297,880 (1/3 of mine)

Total Offensive Shooting is: 186,457,150

 

In theory I should last 3B/186 = 15 rounds or 10 rounds with the weird #. Without calculating in decreasing shot capacity by Valkor/Roman

 

 

We destroyed: 1210 ships for the following:

defensive strength: 159,096,060

offensive strength: low

 

Deploc locations killed:

location 1: 279 of 483

location 2: 903 of 1433  (valkor strength in this deploc)

we shot at 1 battleship on this row and did heavy damage. 5 of the 1433 where combat ships.

location 3: 29 of 47 (Roman battleships)

location 11: 2 of 2 (old carriers)

 

Did I miscalculate defensive strength of Tchkon? If so I would love to rerun the fight with 3.1B structural integrity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While I like whatever bad news befalls the Eyre, I too must insist that the combat system should WORK! If there is indeed a problem with the battle and no confidence in that, then perhaps you need to shut down the game until the time has been taken to ensure that it is fixed and the battle engines integrity can be assured. It could also mean the time could be taken to complete the naval combat document as well as we all long for it.

 

The integrity issue seems weird and wrong, you should have had more, it is almost as if the battle engine had a cap at 2 billion. Which worries me since most of my newer battleships have both armor and shields in the tens of millions I would like to ensure that this works as it is intended.

 

As for defences, since these are mystery figures affected by racial space combat modifiers as well as training and morale on fleets, all three we know nothing of or have any numbers to crunch so we have no clue if they work correctly or not, so it might well be that the defenders have superior racial space combat modifiers, experience and morale which affects their defensive capacity better.

 

Since NONE of those factors are presented in combat results despite pleas over the years to this effect (You yourself were against RTG giving out this information initially) Noone has a real clue to exactly what happens in combat and what affects the various rounds in it other than that they either lost or won. As there have been problems in the past (excessive fighter losses etc) and loose discussions about revamping the defensive systems which seems to have faltered into nothing there should be concern in my mind from RTG to ensure that we have the data available to actually have faith in the combat system. Something that I know the RTG crew strives constantly to inspire in us and with that in mind I know we will soon see an explanation to this combat as we have to the erroneous one in the past

 

Anyways, here's to the victorious Romans! And hoping the Eyre and allies lose many many many more battles!

 

 

/Locklyn

[MadMartinB]

I don't mind losing the battle but I would like it rerun at 3.1B defense. Since the damage I take reduces my integretity and my fire power I basically lost some 35% to a mysterious ailment.

 

I do like the kills in deploc 11,3 and 2 while BSATs in 1 are left alone.

[Justinian]

Massive battle with the Romans this turn. THERE ARE STILL ISSUES WITH THE BATTLE SYSTEM. PLEASE RESOLVE PRIOR TO RUNNING NEXT TURN. (LOL..as if that will happen)

 

1. My 3,000,000 Tchkon Armor ship shows this:

**DESTROYED** [1211st] BB Screaming Pict (Battleship - 7,339,800 tons) [integrity: 2,000,000,000] (Green, Timid)

8 Fuel Shuttle, 600,000 Fuel Tankage, 4,000 Mk III Antimatter Engine, 2 Mk III Jump Survey Sensor

15,000 Mk VI Computer System, 1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive, 60 Siege Graser, 3,000,000 Tckon 68

Coherent Beam: 126,720,003

 

So I should fire 73 globs of 1.7M or so. And I though the armor was 1000 per 100 tons which should be 3B not 2B. Did I lose 1B of integrety??

 

Also:

Total Defensive Absorbtion by Roman/Valkor is: 1,104,297,880 (1/3 of mine)

Total Offensive Shooting is: 186,457,150

 

In theory I should last 3B/186 = 15 rounds or 10 rounds with the weird #. Without calculating in decreasing shot capacity by Valkor/Roman

 

 

We destroyed: 1210 ships for the following:

defensive strength: 159,096,060

offensive strength: low

 

Deploc locations killed:

location 1: 279 of 483

location 2: 903 of 1433  (valkor strength in this deploc)

we shot at 1 battleship on this row and did heavy damage. 5 of the 1433 where combat ships.

location 3: 29 of 47 (Roman battleships)

location 11: 2 of 2 (old carriers)

 

Did I miscalculate defensive strength of Tchkon? If so I would love to rerun the fight with 3.1B structural integrity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

***Attention Macrohard***

This MMB guy doesn't seem to be a drop.

 

Now to the ancient nemesis...the easiest way to end the pain is to simply stop invading Allied space. As that would require a personality change, let's treat the subject at hand.

 

According to your calculations, you destroyed 1210 ships at a rate of 73 per round, the battle lasted about 16-17 rounds. But instead of Allied FP being 186m, it was in reality around 196m. Over 17 rounds, this 196m in FP would total 3.33 billion in damage. In short, despite the battle listing of 2b integrity for your BB, you got every bit of hull integrity you deserved, so stop complaining. You attacked and Allied defenses ruined your day...again.

 

If anything, Allied intelligence feels you gained far too much in the battle. Our questions center on the research you presented in your post. How come only 58% of DepLoc 1 ships (279/483) were engaged by the enemy over 17 rounds of battle and 1200 globs of enemy fire? If this is DepLoc 1, it should have taken more fire and screened the Allied fleet better than it did. Especially since enemy fire engaged 63% of DepLoc 2 ships (903/1433), 62% of DepLoc 3 (29/47), and 100% of DepLoc 11 (2/2). That sounds like a big break for Eyre...no Allied capital ships would have been lost had DepLoc 1 taken the preponderance of enemy firepower like advertised

 

According to the Naval Comat Primer, "The closer to the front of the battle a ship is, the more of its firepower it will inflict on the enemy. Those ships are also far more likely to be targeted by enemy weapons fire. As you move back toward Deployment Location # 12, ships will not be as close to the main thrust of the fight, and are not able to direct as much of their firepower into enemy units. They are also less likely to be targeted."

 

So in the end, quit complaining...over nothing. Eyre fared better than it deserved, your hull integrity value was accurate for battle calculations, and you scored more hits than you deserved in our opinion. If you don't like consistent thrashings in Allied space, stop invading.

[MadMartinB]

Actually those are some of my concerns. Also remember that you depreciate over time. The battle does not add up.

[RTGPete]

Actually the 3b integrity was used in the battle – display used long integers which precluded more than about 2b. Actual integrity can be limitless. After the turn ran and the database was unlocked I made some changes to a few tables to increase the size of a few fields used on the display side.

 

I would caution anyone pre-calculating results to guarantee victory, however - this is one of the reasons why I do not like giving out too much information. Racial bonuses and leaders come to mind as factors that help battles to veer away from the "Accountants In Space" method of battle prediction. The results came out close to what would be expected but not precisely so.

 

In the case of this battle, the attacking ship still dished out quite a bit of damage and did a great job wiping out the junk screens. The battle was much closer than one might think - a solid ship with high fire control can most defintely win out over the screen strategy. I can understand the joy of the defenders after their victory...but their top military people are probably still sweating at night over this one. What would have happened if two Screaming Picts had shown up?

 

I might also add that this particular war has been a classic - fantastic planning by both sides followed up by great engagements. The attackers haven't managed to crack the defenses....yet....but it's been soooo close, and the battles themselves have been quite exiting. Great stuff

[Locklyn]

Okidoki then! Our own naval architects are being marched away from the firing line as we speak and we all feel safer that these numbers will show up correctly in the future. Their families and eggsac matrons thank you.

 

/Locklyn

[Locklyn]

Now that all is cleared up as kosher we can now officially reveal our loinsac in the general Eyre direction and go "Na na nana na na"

 

 

/Locklyn

[Justinian]

In the case of this battle, the attacking ship still dished out quite a bit of damage and did a great job wiping out the junk screens.  The battle was much closer than one might think - a solid ship with high fire control can most defintely win out over the screen strategy.  I can understand the joy of the defenders after their victory...but their top military people are probably still sweating at night over this one.  What would have happened if two Screaming Picts had shown up? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, supreme gamemaster, if you double the enemy's strength, you must double mine as well...same result, different day, double the wreckage. We prefer to think like, "What would have happened had our other mobile fleet been there as well?"

 

I might also add that this particular war has been a classic - fantastic planning by both sides followed up by great engagements.  The attackers haven't managed to crack the defenses....yet....but it's been soooo close, and the battles themselves have been quite exiting.  Great stuff 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do I have to play the part of the Christians in the Colisieum? If the lions would stop showing up, I wouldn't have to keep slaying them.

What's the point--just hand me another sword...

[EternusIV]

A situation like this, if left unaddressed, threatens the playerbase's view of the long term stability of the game.

 

I'm relieved to see that Pete responded to this quickly.

 

Had I been in Martin's shoes I would have had questions, too (who wouldn't have?)

 

The battle is a reminder to me that my spreadsheet CAN 'lie' because we don't have all the modifiers pinned to a number. The only insurance I see is more fire control, more screens, more firepower, more ,more , more

I do like the kills in deploc 11,3 and 2 while BSATs in 1 are left alone.

 

Me too!! (Sorry Justinian) These mechanics reflect what Pete alluded to in the last SNROTE Reader about racial modifiers that allow the ability to discern 'past' screen ships.

 

Politics aside, I'm waiting for that battle where a lone battleship wipes out a fleet with 10 trillion screens. It seems we almost had that moment.....

[Galreth]

Politics aside, I'm waiting for that battle where a lone battleship wipes out a fleet with 10 trillion screens.    It seems we almost had that moment.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, hey, be gentle with such thoughts...let's not hope for this TOO soon!

[MadMartinB]

Thanks Pete.

[Lord Xaar]

Glad to see some life in the boards still. Was getting worried...

 

Great battle, guys. Good gaming!

 

-LX