Ground Combat

[General Miles Avatar]

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** GROUND COMBAT REPORT **

----- #$%^^& [ K (Orange) 4 V ] [single Star] - 1 -----

SPE The Spree # 976 'A Falcon In Flight Over A Field Of Flowing Crimson'

The Spree are a tall, graceful species of avian descent.

KRZ Censored 'A Flaming Golden Sword Inside A Circular Black Field'

The Karzani appear as large imposing batlike humanoids with immense translucent leathery wings.

** Table of Organization & Equipment: Probe # 5214 **

The Spree # 976

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10 Imperial Marines Armor

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Armor [4000] Armored Car

Open Terrain [6000] Armored Car, Truck

** Table of Organization & Equipment: The 101st IMF # 101 **

 

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9 Guerrilla

9 Imperial Army Artillery

4 Imperial Army Heavy Air Defense

1 Imperial Army Heavy Artillery

5 Imperial Army Heavy Infantry

13 Imperial Army Mechanized Infantry

10 Imperial Army Strategic Bomber

5 Imperial Guards Air Force

5 Imperial Guards Artillery

3 Imperial Guards Heavy Air Defense

25 Imperial Guards Heavy Artillery

25 Imperial Guards Heavy Infantry

2 Imperial Guards Infantry

3 Imperial Guards Security

2 Imperial Guards Special Forces

4 Imperial Guards Strategic Bomber

26 Imperial Marines Air Force

7 Imperial Marines Armor

26 Imperial Marines Heavy Infantry

16 Imperial Marines Raiders

2 Imperial Marines Special Forces

3 Medical

11 NBC

2 Transport

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Air Defense [327600] Aegis Heavy Laser Cannon, Anti-Aircraft Artillery, Argus Laser Cannon

Blowpipe Surface-to-Air Missile, Cerberus Laser Cannon, Stinger SAM

Air Support [302100] Advanced Attack Helicopter, Attack Helicopter, Helicopter, Jet Fighter-Bomber

Air To Air [241200] Advanced Jet Fighter, Jet Fighter, Jet Fighter-Bomber

Ammunition [2000] Heavy Truck, Truck

Antitank [62400] Mamba ATGM, Viper Anti-Tank Guided Missile

Armor [21600] Armored Car, Light Tank

Artillery [502250] Advanced Howitzer, Long Tom Howitzer, Longbow, M82 Mortar, Surface-to-Surface Missile

Biological Defense [1800] Mk I Biological Weapons Defenses

Biological Weapons [175500] Dangerous Biological Munitions, Harmful Biological Munitions

Camouflage [15200] Chameleon Cloak, Sneak Suit

Chemical Defense [1800] Mk I Chemical Weapons Defenses

Chemical Weapons [260550] Advanced Howitzer, Blister Agents Chemical Munitions, Irritant Agents Chemical Munitions

Long Tom Howitzer, Surface-to-Surface Missile

Close Combat [10771200] Ablative Armor, Assault Armor, Battle Armor, Battle Dress, Battleaxe

Chainsaw, Club, Combat Environment Suit, Dagger, Flak Jacket

M75 High Explosive Grenade, Nuclear Buzzsaw, Powered Assault Armor

Heavy Weapons [1258400] Brumbar Infantry Support Gun, Hamburg Infantry Support Gun, Portable Missile Launcher

Recoilless Rifle

Intelligence [700] Smoke Projector

Medical [7200] Mk I Field Hospital, Mk II Field Hospital

Nuclear Weapons [81000] Nuclear Bomb, Surface-to-Surface Missile

Open Terrain [37600] Armored Car, Heavy Truck, Light Tank, Truck

Orbital Bombardment [15000] Surface-to-Surface Missile

Security [1500] Dartgun

Small Arms [333000] Carbine, Gauss Rifle, Harpoon Gun, Heavy Gauss Rifle, Laser Rifle

Semiautomatic Pistol, Shotgun

Transport [4000] Heavy Truck, Truck

** Tactical Rating Modifiers **

Air Defense Air Support Air to Air Ammunition Amphibious Antitank Aquatic

-10 -10 -10 -10 +0 -10 +0

Armor Artillery Biodefense Bioweapons Broken Terrain Camouflage Chemdefense

-6 -10 -10 -10 +0 -10 -10

Chemweapons Close Combat EW Engineering Environmental ESP Heavy Weapons

-10 -30 +0 +0 +0 +0 -10

Intel Medical Nuc Defense Nuc Weapons Open Terrain Orbital Bmb Security

-10 -10 +0 -10 -7 -10 -10

Small Arms Space Defense Special Wpns Subterranean Telekinesis Telepathics Transport

-10 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 -10

Odds: -23.28777 Total tactical combat odds shifts: -23.3

Attacking divisions counted as if they were 2.25 divisions each for casualty purposes

Defending divisions counted as if they were 12.25 divisions each for casualty purposes

Ground combat results

Attacker losses: <no losses>

Defender losses: <no losses>

Spree forces probe the defenses but do not engage in a full scale attack.

 

The Spree are caught completely unprepared for what awaits them and unfortunately for them

they wont last long( maybe .1 seconds) in the counterattack.

[WKE235]

Yep, appears the defender has a small defensive force in place.

 

Plus they have a very high defensive bonus (hence they count as 12.25 divisons for any losses versus your 2.25 .. almost 6 to 1). Which means you have to do a lot more damage to them to win.

 

And from the initial items, it appears their tech is better than yours as well. You are going to need a lot of troopers to overcome that 10 Million in close combat that they have, let alone get the TAC bonuses shifted down to something manageble.

 

Hmmm .. based on this I'd have to guess you would need around .. oh .. 1000 Divisions to have a chance to win (that 12.25 division count for them is a real killer).

 

Good Luck.

[General Miles Avatar]

Yep, appears the defender has a small defensive force in place.

 

Plus they have a very high defensive bonus (hence they count as 12.25 divisons for any losses versus your 2.25 .. almost 6 to 1). Which means you have to do a lot more damage to them to win.

 

And from the initial items, it appears their tech is better than yours as well. You are going to need a lot of troopers to overcome that 10 Million in close combat that they have, let alone get the TAC bonuses shifted down to something manageble.

 

Hmmm .. based on this I'd have to guess you would need around .. oh .. 1000 Divisions to have a chance to win (that 12.25 division count for them is a real killer).

 

Good Luck.

 

Its not the defender that will need the luck. That poor slub thought it was a drop when apparently it wasnt.

Id say 2500 divisions is more like it and they would have to be just as tough and have just as good tac bonuses and thats assuming current ground techs.

 

Say any positions out there besides these lowly Spree need a good race of mercs to help them out.

Just 10 of our troopers will count as nearly 120 of any other troopers in the Galaxy.

[cestvel]

Even an attack on any drop with no added ground tech and troops would have been difficult with a mere 10 Marine Armor without any ground tech to help them. The odds would be shifted against them anytime.

 

You need to get a mix of troops there and a hell of a lot more ground tech. use the time you need to

produce around 600+ more divisions to close the tech gap (so for at least the next 60 cycles only ground tech on you RCs ).

 

If they are really still active, better bomb the planet, that'll be easier to achieve

[AKO]

Yep, appears the defender has a small defensive force in place.

 

Plus they have a very high defensive bonus (hence they count as 12.25 divisons for any losses versus your 2.25 .. almost 6 to 1). Which means you have to do a lot more damage to them to win.

 

And from the initial items, it appears their tech is better than yours as well. You are going to need a lot of troopers to overcome that 10 Million in close combat that they have, let alone get the TAC bonuses shifted down to something manageble.

 

Hmmm .. based on this I'd have to guess you would need around .. oh .. 1000 Divisions to have a chance to win (that 12.25 division count for them is a real killer).

 

Good Luck.

 

Its not the defender that will need the luck. That poor slub thought it was a drop when apparently it wasnt.

Id say 2500 divisions is more like it and they would have to be just as tough and have just as good tac bonuses and thats assuming current ground techs.

 

Say any positions out there besides these lowly Spree need a good race of mercs to help them out.

Just 10 of our troopers will count as nearly 120 of any other troopers in the Galaxy.

 

Please let me know on what basis you make this claim (that your troopers are 12 times better than the number 2)?

[Sakarissa]

For all you ground pounders out there. I recently had an email conversation with RTG about an error in the Subterranean rating for the Mole Burrower Tank. The rating was 5 digits and should only be 4 digits. For all of you that have ANZ'd it, just remove the last zero and you will have the correct rating. Hopefully RTG will put this on the header of the next turn results.

 

Sakarissa

[General Miles Avatar]

Yep, appears the defender has a small defensive force in place.

 

Plus they have a very high defensive bonus (hence they count as 12.25 divisons for any losses versus your 2.25 .. almost 6 to 1). Which means you have to do a lot more damage to them to win.

 

And from the initial items, it appears their tech is better than yours as well. You are going to need a lot of troopers to overcome that 10 Million in close combat that they have, let alone get the TAC bonuses shifted down to something manageble.

 

Hmmm .. based on this I'd have to guess you would need around .. oh .. 1000 Divisions to have a chance to win (that 12.25 division count for them is a real killer).

 

Good Luck.

 

Its not the defender that will need the luck. That poor slub thought it was a drop when apparently it wasnt.

Id say 2500 divisions is more like it and they would have to be just as tough and have just as good tac bonuses and thats assuming current ground techs.

 

Say any positions out there besides these lowly Spree need a good race of mercs to help them out.

Just 10 of our troopers will count as nearly 120 of any other troopers in the Galaxy.

 

Please let me know on what basis you make this claim (that your troopers are 12 times better than the number 2)?

 

Its really quite simple. From the standpoint of 'casualty purposes' the 12.25 race is MUCH MUCH better.

You see this number is completely seperate from ALL other factors. This is the value that is used to determine the casualtties inflicted.

 

So lets say after the first round of battle the 12.25 race was scheduled to lose 100 divisions and the 2.25 race was scheduled to lose 100 as well.

 

That 100 for the 12.25 race would be divided by you guessed it 12.25 and they would lose oh about 12 of the

100. the 2.25 race would lose you, guessed right again, 44 divisions. 100/2.25. Heaven help the brain in a jar races with a .1 or something equally laughable.

 

Now in this particualr case the 12.25 race has many many ground techs with many many different types of divisions and won ALL the tac mods that they had tech for and ground units with that tech.

 

Not only would an invading army have to match the defenders in tech but they would have to outnumber them nearly 12 to 1 (unless they were just as tough)

 

BTW The defending race is not a drop and bombing them will not destroy ANY ground troops. The attacking player may derive some satisfaction but in the end the world will be unattainable by ground assault or

at the very least require an attack my MASSIVE numbers of ground troops which as we all know require

massive expenditures of resources for an iffy proposition at the very best.

[cestvel]

Well the defender lacks in a few areas, where the attacker could gain some plusses for his side.

He will still need the 12 to 1 in troops though.

 

And the bombing I suggested was NOT intended to kill ground forces, but to kill off the infrastructure.

As he cannot let live such a dangerous race in his neighbourhood, simple as that.

[WKE235]

Well the defender lacks in a few areas, where the attacker could gain some plusses for his side.

He will still need the 12 to 1 in troops though.

 

And the bombing I suggested was NOT intended to kill ground forces, but to kill off the infrastructure.

As he cannot let live such a dangerous race in his neighbourhood, simple as that.

 

This brings up the question .. can you actually make your race too tough to kill in ground combat? I mean, at 12.25 divisions, that is one tough race. MDD's destroy POP and infrastructure and do nothing against the troops. So even if you drop a say 100,000 MDD's of the adequate level, the troopers sit their sunning themselves while the planets mines and industry melt around them. If a race is so tough that someone thinks it's not worth the effort, then ... POW .. they'll probably commit genocide, bomb the planet back to the stone age, and forget about it after that.

 

Of course, 2.25 vs 12.25 can be overcome with good odds and tac shifts. Lets say these two races have equal ground techs. Player 2.25 attacks with a good mix of military units, and with about 50% more units that player 12.25. With a positive tac shift in all categories, the odds shift could give Player 2.25 a 6 to 1 or greater odds on the attack .. which could overcome the defensive bonuses as the other player starts losing defensive division strength at a far faster rate than you.

 

In this case, the techs might be quite a bit different with the weaker player behind in tech to begin with. So the weaker player needs a lot more troopers to get those positive tac bonuses. But 12-1 in troops might not be needed. It all comes down to Tac shifts. If he could land 6 times as many troops in a good mix, so as to get a positive tac shift, the better odds could do it.

 

Heck, just bomb him into the stone age

[General Miles Avatar]

Well the defender lacks in a few areas, where the attacker could gain some plusses for his side.

He will still need the 12 to 1 in troops though.

 

And the bombing I suggested was NOT intended to kill ground forces, but to kill off the infrastructure.

As he cannot let live such a dangerous race in his neighbourhood, simple as that.

 

This brings up the question .. can you actually make your race too tough to kill in ground combat? I mean, at 12.25 divisions, that is one tough race. MDD's destroy POP and infrastructure and do nothing against the troops. So even if you drop a say 100,000 MDD's of the adequate level, the troopers sit their sunning themselves while the planets mines and industry melt around them. If a race is so tough that someone thinks it's not worth the effort, then ... POW .. they'll probably commit genocide, bomb the planet back to the stone age, and forget about it after that.

 

Of course, 2.25 vs 12.25 can be overcome with good odds and tac shifts. Lets say these two races have equal ground techs. Player 2.25 attacks with a good mix of military units, and with about 50% more units that player 12.25. With a positive tac shift in all categories, the odds shift could give Player 2.25 a 6 to 1 or greater odds on the attack .. which could overcome the defensive bonuses as the other player starts losing defensive division strength at a far faster rate than you.

 

In this case, the techs might be quite a bit different with the weaker player behind in tech to begin with. So the weaker player needs a lot more troopers to get those positive tac bonuses. But 12-1 in troops might not be needed. It all comes down to Tac shifts. If he could land 6 times as many troops in a good mix, so as to get a positive tac shift, the better odds could do it.

 

Heck, just bomb him into the stone age

Id say no to the making a race too tough to kill but you could probably make one that can be almost too tough to kill and if they take all the race attributes that aid most in ground combat like size strenght and speed then your nearly there. Check out this ealier battle against a small force defending one of my colonies:

 

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** GROUND COMBAT REPORT **

----- PITIRIM [ N (Deep Red) 3 IV ] [single Star] - 6c -----

SPE The Spree # 976 'A Falcon In Flight Over A Field Of Flowing Crimson'

The Spree are a tall, graceful species of avian descent.

KRZ The Star Union of Taree # 4194 'A Flaming Golden Sword Inside A Circular Black Field'

The Karzani appear as large imposing batlike humanoids with immense translucent leathery wings.

** Table of Organization & Equipment: Redemption # 28930 **

The Spree # 976

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2 Imperial Guards Infantry

12 Imperial Marines Armor

10 Imperial Marines Heavy Infantry

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Armor [4800] Armored Car

Close Combat [32400] Ablative Armor, Battleaxe, Chainsaw, Club, Dagger, Flak Jacket

M75 High Explosive Grenade, Spear, Sword

Heavy Weapons [3800] Recoilless Rifle

Open Terrain [7200] Armored Car, Truck

Small Arms [9600] Carbine, Harpoon Gun, Semiautomatic Pistol, Shotgun

** Table of Organization & Equipment: 82nd Imperial Guard # 82 **

The Star Union of Taree # 4194

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1 Imperial Army Heavy Air Defense

1 Imperial Army Heavy Infantry

1 Imperial Guards Heavy Infantry

1 Imperial Marines Raiders

1 NBC

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Air Defense [25200] Aegis Heavy Laser Cannon, Anti-Aircraft Artillery, Argus Laser Cannon

Blowpipe Surface-to-Air Missile, Cerberus Laser Cannon, Stinger SAM

Artillery [2870] Advanced Howitzer, Long Tom Howitzer, Longbow, M82 Mortar, Surface-to-Surface Missile

Biological Weapons [3900] Dangerous Biological Munitions, Harmful Biological Munitions

Camouflage [400] Chameleon Cloak, Sneak Suit

Chemical Weapons [5790] Advanced Howitzer, Blister Agents Chemical Munitions, Irritant Agents Chemical Munitions

Long Tom Howitzer, Surface-to-Surface Missile

Close Combat [396000] Ablative Armor, Assault Armor, Battle Armor, Battle Dress, Battleaxe

Chainsaw, Club, Combat Environment Suit, Dagger, Flak Jacket

M75 High Explosive Grenade, Nuclear Buzzsaw, Powered Assault Armor

Spear, Sword, Thermic Lance, Vibrosaw

Heavy Weapons [44000] Brumbar Infantry Support Gun, Hamburg Infantry Support Gun, Portable Missile Launcher

Recoilless Rifle

Nuclear Weapons [1800] Nuclear Bomb, Surface-to-Surface Missile

Small Arms [12600] Carbine, Gauss Rifle, Harpoon Gun, Heavy Gauss Rifle, Laser Rifle

Semiautomatic Pistol, Shotgun

** Tactical Rating Modifiers **

Air Defense Air Support Air to Air Ammunition Amphibious Antitank Aquatic

-10 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0

Armor Artillery Biodefense Bioweapons Broken Terrain Camouflage Chemdefense

+10 -10 +0 -10 +0 -10 +0

Chemweapons Close Combat EW Engineering Environmental ESP Heavy Weapons

-10 -17 +0 +0 +0 +0 -6

Intel Medical Nuc Defense Nuc Weapons Open Terrain Orbital Bmb Security

0 +0 +0 -10 +10 +0 +0

Small Arms Space Defense Special Wpns Subterranean Telekinesis Telepathics Transport

-2 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0

Odds: -5.22 Total tactical combat odds shifts: -6.5

Attacking divisions counted as if they were 2.25 divisions each for casualty purposes

Ground combat results

Attacker losses: 2 Imperial Guards Infantry, 12 Imperial Marines Armor, 10 Imperial Marines Heavy Infantry

Defender losses: <no losses>

 

5 divisions defending against 24 and they suffered no losses and completely annihilated the enemy. Those

are some tough Hombres!

 

I left the post unedited as well. I figure what the heck the Spree and everyone they know know where we are so why not the rest of the Galaxy.

[WKE235]

The key to all ground combat appears to be Tac Shifts above and beyond everything else.

 

The way combat works is Base Odds are figured first (Attack Combat Power -vs- Defender Combat Power).

 

Then Raw odds are determined. Raw odds come from taking the base odds and modifying them for leaders, GCM's, tactics selected, and other such items. It appears that this modifiers are all multipliers or dividers to the base odds. Hence the raw odds will range somewhere from 0, on up to large positive numbers.

 

Finally, the Tac Shift is applied. Basically all the Tactical Modifiers are added up, divided by 10, and you get the Tac Shift. The Tac shift is simply added to the Raw odds, resulting in the final Odds for the attack.

 

Note that this method can produce some interesting results. Since the raw odds cannot go below 0, you can attack and still win in very low raw odds situations ... as long as your Tac Shifts are Positive.

 

Examples:

In battle one, I attacked with a force and the odds came to 0.99 (1:1). This was despite a -7.6 Tac Shift. This battle was a draw as it ended after both sides had moderate losses (about 10% of each force). Essentially I was attacking at 8.6 raw odds (damn good). But the tactical disadvantages drug me down to 0.99 odds (-7.6 Tac Shift)

 

In battle two the next turn, the former defender attacked first. Suicide? Nope, actually a very intelligent thing to do. You see, the the odds for their attack came to 6.916 with a Tac Shift of +6.8. This means the overall raw odds were 0.116 before the shift. The inverse of 8.6 odds is 0.116 odds. So the raw odds came out to the be the reverse of my raw odds attack, as you might expect. But the Positive Tac Shift made the difference. Truely horrible raw odds of 0.116 were adjusted to 6.916, allowing the attacker to wipe out my force (losing about 60% of his .. he also rates about 8 division to my 3 or so in combat, and that toughness gave him the final edge to win).

 

I have to admit it's pretty strange that leaders and tactics choosen are not done like the Tac Shifts. You get column shifts (additive) for technology advantages, but not for tactics or leaders. Still, that's how it's programmed. It's all about getting Tac Shifts.

[General Miles Avatar]

The key to all ground combat appears to be Tac Shifts above and beyond everything else.

 

The way combat works is Base Odds are figured first (Attack Combat Power -vs- Defender Combat Power).

 

Then Raw odds are determined. Raw odds come from taking the base odds and modifying them for leaders, GCM's, tactics selected, and other such items. It appears that this modifiers are all multipliers or dividers to the base odds. Hence the raw odds will range somewhere from 0, on up to large positive numbers.

 

Finally, the Tac Shift is applied. Basically all the Tactical Modifiers are added up, divided by 10, and you get the Tac Shift. The Tac shift is simply added to the Raw odds, resulting in the final Odds for the attack.

 

Note that this method can produce some interesting results. Since the raw odds cannot go below 0, you can attack and still win in very low raw odds situations ... as long as your Tac Shifts are Positive.

 

Examples:

In battle one, I attacked with a force and the odds came to 0.99 (1:1). This was despite a -7.6 Tac Shift. This battle was a draw as it ended after both sides had moderate losses (about 10% of each force). Essentially I was attacking at 8.6 raw odds (damn good). But the tactical disadvantages drug me down to 0.99 odds (-7.6 Tac Shift)

 

In battle two the next turn, the former defender attacked first. Suicide? Nope, actually a very intelligent thing to do. You see, the the odds for their attack came to 6.916 with a Tac Shift of +6.8. This means the overall raw odds were 0.116 before the shift. The inverse of 8.6 odds is 0.116 odds. So the raw odds came out to the be the reverse of my raw odds attack, as you might expect. But the Positive Tac Shift made the difference. Truely horrible raw odds of 0.116 were adjusted to 6.916, allowing the attacker to wipe out my force (losing about 60% of his .. he also rates about 8 division to my 3 or so in combat, and that toughness gave him the final edge to win).

 

I have to admit it's pretty strange that leaders and tactics choosen are not done like the Tac Shifts. You get column shifts (additive) for technology advantages, but not for tactics or leaders. Still, that's how it's programmed. It's all about getting Tac Shifts.

 

 

Very True WKE235 it is all about tac shifts and getting as many on your side as possible to get that extra odds shift in your favor. Leaders affect casualites both on the the defending and enemy side but like you said dont seem to affect much else

 

Still in the above smaller ground combat the enemy forces had the defenders outnumbered nearly 5 to 1

pretty good odds yet lost the tac shifts horribly due to the defender having much much better tech. That

coupled with the fact that the defenders were just dern tough to kill and the firepower that the enemy inflicted was just not large enough to inflict any casualties once the defenders 12.25 rating was factored in.

It may have been possible that the defender was scheduled to lose 10 or 11 divisions but that would have been taken down to less then 1 and probably less due to leaders( Id like to see this added as well) and hence no losses suffered.

[hobknob]

While the defenders forces are formidable at 218 divisions, they are not invincible. They certainly seem to have the upper hand at the moment, but there are plenty of comparable lifeforms in play that could take them.

 

It might be time to hire your turtling neighbor, unless this was your turtling neighbor you were inclined to assault.

[General Miles Avatar]

While the defenders forces are formidable at 218 divisions, they are not invincible. They certainly seem to have the upper hand at the moment, but there are plenty of comparable lifeforms in play that could take them.

 

It might be time to hire your turtling neighbor, unless this was your turtling neighbor you were inclined to assault.

 

If it bleeds in can be killed. Your right they are not invincible but it will take another ground combat race

with a pretty hefty casualty rating to even have a chance and from what I've seen and heard these guys are

if not at the top in the top 3. Certainly a race with a 4 or 6 will have a hard time unless they have massive numbers. as you can see even a pretty hardy race with a 2.25 stands no chance.

[hobknob]

Species Engineering is a wonderful thing.