WP Assault

[Coconutheads]

In a WP assault, which side of the WP is the important size? Is it the entry warp point or the exit point that limits the number of WP bubbles that transit simultaneously?

 

Also, how do you reclassify a ship's mission? I think I read that you NUD the ship design that you want to change, then change the mission classification to the new one that you want it to be. But I don't need to move it back to a shipyard and SCRP then re-SHIP it do I? I need to make some last minute in-the-field modifications and I don't want to have to send my ships back to the closest SY if possible. Any more delays could cause some difficulties.

 

Finally, does anyone have any helpful tips as to how to conduct a successful WP assault?

[cestvel]

It *should* be the entry WP. Never really did a WP assault where it mattered, though.

 

Yes, just NUD the same *Name* of the design and set a new Class, the rest is not relevant. (I learned that by accident, trying to do a complete new design under an old name. Only the class was changed)

 

Other hints: WIN !

 

Luckily it cannot be me, you are attacking, as I hvae no ships to defend a WP

[Coconutheads]

It *should* be the entry WP. Never really did a WP assault where it mattered, though.

 

Yes, just NUD the same *Name* of the design and set a new Class, the rest is not relevant. (I learned that by accident, trying to do a complete new design under an old name. Only the class was changed)

 

Other hints: WIN !

 

Luckily it cannot be me, you are attacking, as I hvae no ships to defend a WP

 

 

No sir, it's absolutely not you who are in jeapoardy. Turns out that things have 'changed' somewhat in the last day, and it appears that a WP assault will be a necessity. Ah, the best laid plans of men and mice... but it could be for the best in the end anyway. Who knows at this juncture.

 

I want to be sure I understand how the system works so that we have the best chance available. Thankfully the entry WP is one of the largest in the game which should be useful.

 

That's what I thought would be needed, just NUD the same name and change the classification. But would have to do it only to find it didn't work and it made the whole venture end in disaster.

[Coconutheads]

Along the lines of my earlier post, how effective are the mission class designations? I've done some reading on them and it appears that regardless whether you set one class of ships to A (Assault) and another class of ships all the way to V (Carrier) that there is no guarantee that the A ships will arrive before the V ships.

 

But, how effective is it? Is it like a 75%/25% chance of Assault going in first? Is it 80/20? Possibly even 90/10? I'm trying to gauge the probability involved to determine the potential risks...

 

Also, does the WP bubble size of a ship have anything to do with arrival timing? Do ships with larger warp bubbles arrive BEFORE ones with smaller ones? Or is the opposite true, that the smaller warp bubble ships cram through first?

 

Anyone out there with experience willing to part with it?

[hobknob]

In my experience it is a crap shoot as to who goes through the WP first. I had one battle with 3500 screens and a WDN. Almost all of the screens went through first, and were summarily destroyed, before my big ship came through.

 

I have also had carriers, transports and tankers all go through first which the heavy metal waited for a turn. It doesn't seem to be very predictable IMHO.

 

[Coconutheads]

Thanks Hobknob. I thought that was probably the case.

 

It makes no sense though. If you are forming your ships up for a WP assault and are on the 'peaceful' side of the WP, why is it that there is randomness on when your ships will leave (and thus arrive on the far side)? I mean, you're commanders would say "Uh Captain of ship we want to go thru last. It's an advanced concept but do us a favor. Don't transit this end of the WP until you see everyone ELSE go through... then it's your turn. You got that?". Seems like there should be ZERO randomness, if you order assault ships to transit through first, they WILL go through first. Now if you were on the hostile side of the WP, I could see random transitions but on the way into a WP assault?? Makes no sense.

 

Another question. If you have a WP size 40, and your entire fleet of ships has a warp bubble of 21, then you only get ONE through at a time. But if you could reduce the warp bubble to 20, then you'd get TWO ships through at a time. Or is this another of the 'maybe it works that way and maybe it doesn't work that way' kind of things too?

 

 

 

Pete, I would love to hear you comment on the WP transit point I was making above. Why is there a random factor when you are on the peaceful side of the WP and it's critical to get ships thru in a specific sequence?

[TErnest]

Thanks Hobknob. I thought that was probably the case.

 

It makes no sense though. If you are forming your ships up for a WP assault and are on the 'peaceful' side of the WP, why is it that there is randomness on when your ships will leave (and thus arrive on the far side)? I mean, you're commanders would say "Uh Captain of ship we want to go thru last. It's an advanced concept but do us a favor. Don't transit this end of the WP until you see everyone ELSE go through... then it's your turn. You got that?". Seems like there should be ZERO randomness, if you order assault ships to transit through first, they WILL go through first. Now if you were on the hostile side of the WP, I could see random transitions but on the way into a WP assault?? Makes no sense.

 

Another question. If you have a WP size 40, and your entire fleet of ships has a warp bubble of 21, then you only get ONE through at a time. But if you could reduce the warp bubble to 20, then you'd get TWO ships through at a time. Or is this another of the 'maybe it works that way and maybe it doesn't work that way' kind of things too?

 

 

 

Pete, I would love to hear you comment on the WP transit point I was making above. Why is there a random factor when you are on the peaceful side of the WP and it's critical to get ships thru in a specific sequence?

 

Coconutheads,

 

You assume that extra-dimensional transition between warp points is 100% consistent in the objective (vs. subjective) time required to transit, completely free from unexpected delays, maps neetly into our time-space continuum, and is not regulated by government bureaucrats.

 

If any one of these assumptions is incorrect, it could introduce the randomness you describe.

 

TErnest

(Agent of ENTROPY)

[Coconutheads]

Still curious about the WP size thing (and time is short, turns due tonight). I'm pretty sure that I have the answer but I'd like someone to confirm that on a WP, say of size 40, you could fit 2 ships through simultaneously if their bubble is 20 but by having the bubble increase to 21, then only one ship would get through per round. In other words, the game does not 'round' warp bubbles so that 2 ships with a 21 bubble would get through.

[hobknob]

I generally work on the assumption that all ships enter the WP at the same time, but only come out as the size of the WP allows. This is also how I have thought of the mix up of ships. It winds up being a surprise to everybody who exactly comes out first.

[TErnest]

Still curious about the WP size thing (and time is short, turns due tonight). I'm pretty sure that I have the answer but I'd like someone to confirm that on a WP, say of size 40, you could fit 2 ships through simultaneously if their bubble is 20 but by having the bubble increase to 21, then only one ship would get through per round. In other words, the game does not 'round' warp bubbles so that 2 ships with a 21 bubble would get through.

 

Your math is correct. No rounding. WP size of 40, and bubble of 21 (or more) means that only ship emerges per round.

 

TErnest

[Coconutheads]

Thanks for the confirmation TErnest, that's the assumption I used.

 

 

Along those lines, for those of you hoping for a reasonable time to get your turns back, I'd recommend going to sleep Friday night and expecting them late on Saturday. We have been forced into an assault situation vs our mortal enemy (he/they know who they are but I don't think they read these boards), so I believe that processing may end up getting bogged down, due in part at least, to this unfortunate situation.

 

Let's hope Pete is a miracle worker and I'm wrong regarding the ETA.

[Breoghan]

That sounds like one big-assed assault if its going to slow things down that much!

[ShadowKitsune]

Still curious about the WP size thing (and time is short, turns due tonight). I'm pretty sure that I have the answer but I'd like someone to confirm that on a WP, say of size 40, you could fit 2 ships through simultaneously if their bubble is 20 but by having the bubble increase to 21, then only one ship would get through per round. In other words, the game does not 'round' warp bubbles so that 2 ships with a 21 bubble would get through.

 

You are correct. Additionally, it doesn't appear as if the transit algorithm "optomizes" in any way, shape, fashion or form. My experience is extremely limited, so do not take anything I say as absolute truth.

 

My dream is that the program would queue the ships going through the Warp Point using the following "rules" hierarchy:

 

1. Deployment Location [DepLoc] Order

2. Alphabetical Order based on Formation type (i.e. A = Assault)

3. Fewest Number of Transits

 

"Rules" 1 and 2 would allow players to customize their Warp Point assault strategies via the use of custom Force Battle Plans.

 

"Rule" 3 basically would be if you had 4 ships (of the same Formation and DepLoc) that had Warp Bubbles of 22, 21, 18 and 12, and a Warp Point of size 40, the program would group the ships to make only two jumps, instead of three.

 

I will admit that I am making a HUGE assumption that the code builds a Warp Point transit queue of all the ships in a fleet prior to a Warp Point transit, if there is a hostile fleet on the "exit" side of the Warp Point. For all I know, it just randomly grabs a ship type and sends as many of that type can go through in one jump, and the selects another ship (or ships) from the remaining ships in the fleet until there are no ships left.

 

Side Note: I prefer the linear warp style of Babylon 5 and Star Wars to the non-linear warp style of Warhammer 40k.

 

YMMV,

-SK

[Phoenix the Empire]

Still curious about the WP size thing (and time is short, turns due tonight). I'm pretty sure that I have the answer but I'd like someone to confirm that on a WP, say of size 40, you could fit 2 ships through simultaneously if their bubble is 20 but by having the bubble increase to 21, then only one ship would get through per round. In other words, the game does not 'round' warp bubbles so that 2 ships with a 21 bubble would get through.

 

Just curious, how did the warp point assault go, did the "A" class ships go first? Was there any rounding on the ship size?

 

Thanks

[hobknob]

You don't really know how the transition goes unless you can tell by the order that ships are destroyed. Bigger ships tend to be destroyed last so even if they transit first you only know the order that they are destroyed. It would be nice to have some sort of report that gives one an idea about that, but it would likely require Pete to do a manual narrative of the battle. With as many battles going on as there seems to be that would be rather time intensive.

 

Every once in a while you will get a blurb from the commanders (Pete) that help to describe the battle or explain results, or if you are really interested you can always give him a call just to see if anything interesting happened, other than winning or losing.