The Database and Delivery of Turn Results

[Sakarissa]

During the same conversation with Pete that the new shipyards were discussed he shared with me three things that are slowing down the database and as a result slow down the delivery of our turn results. Here is the list of issues:

 

1) Convoy routes: To clarify, the multitude of ridiculously long running convoy routes. This means that the fuel SKIM convoy routes with fleets with APs over 100+ (I have one with 816APs).

 

The solution: Redesign the ships running these routes to have fewer APs but higher fuel tankage so the existing convoy routes can still be used. Will need the guilty players to perform the necessary orders to make these convoy routes run quicker. Or possibly concentrate multiple fleets in the same system running the same convoy route.

 

2) Excessive number of ships: This means all those hundred of thousands of 1000 ton screen ships. The warship design philosophy has migrated from the screen swarm to fewer larger ships (at least for the most part). This means that all those meaningless screen ships are bogging down the database.

 

The solution: Execute multiple SCRP orders (or XSCRP if it exists). In extreme cases a SCUT order could do the same thing quicker but without recouping the ship components. Depending on what the new Robotic Shipyards can do, I would suggest the SCRP/XSCRP route and transfer the ingredients to a pop group running a number of Recycling Centers to regain all those resources used in those ships. This solution would take a lot longer that for issue 1 based upon the number of shipyard slips each pop group has.

 

3) Pop Group Stockpiles: No, I'm not talking about the 18 billion Iron sitting in your pop group. I'm talking about all those items that we will never use and are just taking up space in our pop groups. The more items the database has to keep track of the slower things go.

 

The solution: Use the Recycling Centers and transfer all the items over to that pop group. I'm planning on 500-1000 Recycling Centers for each area in my collective space. It's not a huge cost in resources or pop. It will take multiple turns for that amount of Recycling Centers to process all the items. Transfer the items in there and let them cook. Also, spend some time picking up all those weird items from pop groups away from the main production centers. Empty them out of stockpiles and useless installations. The more we trim the faster things will get.

 

I fully expect Pete to, hopefully, expand and/or correct this post. In simplest terms, if we want to continue getting our turn results on Thursdays we have to take the time to perform one or more of the above solutions. If you have convoy routes that aren't being used and never will be, just send an email to Pete stating the empire number and the convoy routes and he will delete them for you. If you have Standing Orders that are no longer needed issue a few DELS orders to clean them up. If you have ship designs that are obsolete and have none currently in fleets then issue a ED orders to clean them out of your ship design list. We just need to perform a little Empire Maintenance to help the get our turn results quicker on a consistent basis.

 

Sakarissa

The Circle

[hobknob]

I couldn't resist a comment or two.

 

1) I will be happy to incorporate some new technology to reduce fuel ussage, but lacking that I see no way around high AP skim fleets. My own fleets are 1500 AP or higher. I understand the issue, but at this point there it will be very difficult and expensive to replace these high AP fleets with slow fleets that are 100 times the size just to get the same yield. Fuel is the limiting factor and will be as far as I can see. It is way too expensive to adjust at this point.

 

2) I don't agree with the usefulness of screens. I don't have loads of 1000 ton screens but I am getting qutie a few 50k and 100k ships. I can appreciated the database issues but who wants to spend all the orders to unbuild what cost loads of time and effort to build.

 

3) Recycling centers are indescriminate and it takes too many orders to sort out the useful from the less useful.

 

Just my opinion of course....

 

[Flagritz]

Could something manual be done to fix this? a one time amnesty to clear up the database with Petes help?

 

1) for skim fleets, if Pete was to convert the high AP fleets into larger low AP fleets they would produce the same but allow things to go faster? Players could submit the fleet numbers they want converting and he could just alter the ship designs?

 

2) If players moved all screens they do not need into a fleet and told pete the fleet number he could delete the fleets complete but deposit say 1000 tons of iron per ship to the colony?

 

3) Recycling centres are still new and not all players have access so this will take a while. Most of my items though are from EXP hits, maybe a rethink on how EXP hits work would limit this problem, maybe just science hits or maybe a limited number of items could potentially be got, I have to admit level 1,2,3 weapons and defences and primitive artworks just get stockpiled as they are no use.

[Lord Deependra]

Turns tend to be coming in fairly early with the database at its current size. If we keep these issues in mind for the future, we should be able to minimise the growth in the problems areas, without necessarily changing what we already have. In other words, try not to build lots more screens and maybe start dumping future exploration finds.

[cestvel]

1) I am guilty of using fuel fleets with AP up to 2000. But there is no alternative, as these high AP ships are way cheaper than the equivalent slower ships.

 

2) Screens are *not* obsolete. They saved my ass on an early position and even seem to be useful with Flag Bridges around. The total harmless Junkers (only Armor or obsolete stuff from EXPLs) *are* useless.

 

3) I set up a few recyclers, but they need care and their own pop groups. And I do not want to use much pop for them. How about Robotic Recyclers?

 

 

 

4) Turns lately came pretty early, so the database size cannot be currently such a big problem.

[rfouasnon]

Some of the exploration finds are quite useful for a lower turn position , so I never dump them . They are useful , one way or the other . They would be more useful if one built recycling centers , but the fact that the recycling centers use pop makes then not an option , especially when I am trying to squeeze out the most from a limited amount of pop . 500 AIC's with industry 6th gen will produce something ...as Marcus said , the centers should be robotic , then they might become an option for me .

Screens are not useless , when built right . Screens can even be deadly if you have the right tech . I second what Marcus said...and I saw the the situation where they saved one of his positions . I don't build 1000 tons screens myself because of the database issue , but they are a valid defensive tactic , especially in the early parts of a positions life when there is little or no fire control . Make the screens really useless , and offer some way of eliminating them all in one simple way ....not that we have to spend whole turnsheets to do away with the screens by bringing them to a place with a major shipyard and then spend orders to scrap them .

As to the high fuel usage , and the high AP fleets . Fuel is something big ships will need massive amounts of . Lots of people do not reseach past the nuclear transwarp engines , because there is no real reason to do this . Like Hobnob said , make tech to use less fuel . Make it worth the RC's to research all the levels of transwarp engines....make each level more fuel efficient than the last level , for instance . Then I bet everybody would be researching the upper level of the transwarp engines .

[Moonshadow]

During the same conversation with Pete that the new shipyards were discussed he shared with me three things that are slowing down the database and as a result slow down the delivery of our turn results. Here is the list of issues:

 

1) Convoy routes: To clarify, the multitude of ridiculously long running convoy routes. This means that the fuel SKIM convoy routes with fleets with APs over 100+ (I have one with 816APs).

 

The solution: Redesign the ships running these routes to have fewer APs but higher fuel tankage so the existing convoy routes can still be used. Will need the guilty players to perform the necessary orders to make these convoy routes run quicker. Or possibly concentrate multiple fleets in the same system running the same convoy route.

 

2) Excessive number of ships: This means all those hundred of thousands of 1000 ton screen ships. The warship design philosophy has migrated from the screen swarm to fewer larger ships (at least for the most part). This means that all those meaningless screen ships are bogging down the database.

 

The solution: Execute multiple SCRP orders (or XSCRP if it exists). In extreme cases a SCUT order could do the same thing quicker but without recouping the ship components. Depending on what the new Robotic Shipyards can do, I would suggest the SCRP/XSCRP route and transfer the ingredients to a pop group running a number of Recycling Centers to regain all those resources used in those ships. This solution would take a lot longer that for issue 1 based upon the number of shipyard slips each pop group has.

 

3) Pop Group Stockpiles: No, I'm not talking about the 18 billion Iron sitting in your pop group. I'm talking about all those items that we will never use and are just taking up space in our pop groups. The more items the database has to keep track of the slower things go.

 

The solution: Use the Recycling Centers and transfer all the items over to that pop group. I'm planning on 500-1000 Recycling Centers for each area in my collective space. It's not a huge cost in resources or pop. It will take multiple turns for that amount of Recycling Centers to process all the items. Transfer the items in there and let them cook. Also, spend some time picking up all those weird items from pop groups away from the main production centers. Empty them out of stockpiles and useless installations. The more we trim the faster things will get.

 

I fully expect Pete to, hopefully, expand and/or correct this post. In simplest terms, if we want to continue getting our turn results on Thursdays we have to take the time to perform one or more of the above solutions. If you have convoy routes that aren't being used and never will be, just send an email to Pete stating the empire number and the convoy routes and he will delete them for you. If you have Standing Orders that are no longer needed issue a few DELS orders to clean them up. If you have ship designs that are obsolete and have none currently in fleets then issue a ED orders to clean them out of your ship design list. We just need to perform a little Empire Maintenance to help the get our turn results quicker on a consistent basis.

 

Sakarissa

The Circle

 

As for point one Pete, helped create this problem himself, with the addition of the universal gate tax. I had no high AP convoy routes prior to the change, now I have connected empires that can not use gates, so high AP ships are NOT going away.