Out There...

[octagon999]

While all this is way cool, it is probably moot. A friend of mine gave me a link a while back to a report regarding the Earth's planetary "health" status. One of the big items in this report was the fact that the magnetic poles are moving. Currently, the South Pole is in the Indian Ocean. It has moved over 900km in the last 100 years and the shift/year is increasing. The scientist who wrote the report suggested we are looking at a pole shift (ie, north and south poles switch places). If he's right, then we could face some rather interesting times. I don't recall any timeframe on the report for when this would happen but it was interesting to read.

 

Sakarissa

Are they really expecting a pole shift? I had heard something about this off and on, but I didn't hear it was expected as soon as 2012. What would be the consequences of such a happening?

 

And the big hype now is global warming. *chuckles*

 

So what is the predicted effect?

 

PS how could the south pole be in the indian ocean if the north pole is still at the north pole???

 

PPS could there be a time of no magnetic belts protecting the earth until it stabilized and what effect would that happen. (Gawd I really want to say would magnets still work, but I will control myself)

 

PPPS Seriously tho, whats the current science on this subject?

[EternusIV]

There are all kinds of theories about a magnetic pole shift. I've never heard about a mass extinction for an IIRC event. According to the stuff I read (a nifty Q&A link below) the last shift was over 700,000 years ago and occurs every 500,000 years or so.

 

I imagine we would see some interference for satellite transmissions and cell phones but all the nasty stuff like gamma rays etc wouldn't be a factor unless the atmosphere somehow vanished in the process (0% chance unless our modern understanding of atmospheric science is flat wrong)

 

As far as I know, my compass still points to the north-seeking pole up somewheres above Canada etc. -- not India....unless you mean horizontal intensity (which isnt a 'pole' at all)?

 

(Side Note: according to my now-retired government physicist friend, a very disturbing idea for a real 'MDD' was developed in the 50s that would temporarily cause the atmosphere to expand long enough for gamma rays to bombard the light side of the Earth.....I'm happy the pentagon brass voted against it...or DID they? :lol: Muhahahaha)

 

Here is a non-conspiracy-based informative link on the topic:

 

http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/earthmag/magnQ&A1.htm

 

 

BTW - my friends and I listen to the Art Bell show for laughs from time to time and recall a Velocavski fanatic claiming that there might be a 'PHYSICAL' shift of the poles as well :lol: Uh-huh....and we're ALL going to die and the government knows about it, too! (PS - not enough energy to cause a geophysical shift of that magnitude)

 

Regardless, I wont lose any sleep over the magnetic poles moving around. The most I'll lose is cell phone coverage for a little while I'll let all the conspiracy-theorists laugh at me if I'm wrong

 

Hey maybe its a big conspiracy by "South" to get more attention than "North" for all future compass manufacturing!

 

Edit - almost forgot my point -- the work on the energy problem is far from moot despite the gazillion theories out there that say we have X time to live I haven't seen any that pass the laugh test that cause me enough concern to abandon ship....unless I see one of Queen Azuth's mother ships make a dramatic entrance over Los Angeles.

[gervais]

I imagine we would see some interference for satellite transmissions and cell phones but all the nasty stuff like gamma rays etc wouldn't be a factor unless the atmosphere somehow vanished in the process (0% chance unless our modern understanding of atmospheric science is flat wrong)

Eternus,

 

I seem to remember hearing that the Earth's magnetic field offers protection from the charged particles of the Solar Wind by causing such particles to go around the Earth. If the magnetic field changes, in strength or direction, would this protection from charged particles also change?

 

And, while the magnetic poles pass through the equator on their way to flipping, would we see the Aurora Borealis and Aurora Australis merge into the Aurora Equatorialis?

 

And what do the holes in the ozone layer depend on -- the true or the magnetic poles? If the latter, what would happen if/when the holes pass over heavily inhabited areas (rather than the uninhabited Arctic and Antarctic), and over how many years/centuries would this situation last?

 

We're all doomed!

 

Gloomy Gervais

[octagon999]

Well, its not like we have someplace else to go if we ARE doomed.

[Ur Lord Tedric]

No indeed!

 

But it would be kind of nice if a lot of this "we're the cause of global warming" stuff was somewhat ameliorated by the governments actually admitting that the sun is actually hotter and more active at the moment........

[MadMartinB]

Ur-Lord -

 

Sorry about the Beagle. Just read about the second attempt to comunicate with the English Mars Probe.

[The Boo Consulate]

While all this is way cool, it is probably moot. A friend of mine gave me a link a while back to a report regarding the Earth's planetary "health" status.  One of the big items in this report was the fact that the magnetic poles are moving. Currently, the South Pole is in the Indian Ocean. It has moved over 900km in the last 100 years and the shift/year is increasing. The scientist who wrote the report suggested we are looking at a pole shift (ie, north and south poles switch places). If he's right, then we could face some rather interesting times. I don't recall any timeframe on the report for when this would happen but it was interesting to read.

 

Sakarissa 

Are they really expecting a pole shift? I had heard something about this off and on, but I didn't hear it was expected as soon as 2012. What would be the consequences of such a happening?

 

And the big hype now is global warming. *chuckles*

 

So what is the predicted effect?

 

PS how could the south pole be in the indian ocean if the north pole is still at the north pole???

 

PPS could there be a time of no magnetic belts protecting the earth until it stabilized and what effect would that happen. (Gawd I really want to say would magnets still work, but I will control myself)

 

PPPS Seriously tho, whats the current science on this subject?

2012 is the end of the Mesoamerican Calender and by implication the end of time :-)

[The Boo Consulate]

There are all kinds of theories about a magnetic pole shift. I've never heard about a mass extinction for an IIRC event. According to the stuff I read (a nifty Q&A link below) the last shift was over 700,000 years ago and occurs every 500,000 years or so.

 

I imagine we would see some interference for satellite transmissions and cell phones but all the nasty stuff like gamma rays etc wouldn't be a factor unless the atmosphere somehow vanished in the process (0% chance unless our modern understanding of atmospheric science is flat wrong)

 

As far as I know, my compass still points to the north-seeking pole up somewheres above Canada etc. -- not India....unless you mean horizontal intensity (which isnt a 'pole' at all)?

 

(Side Note: according to my now-retired government physicist friend, a very disturbing idea for a real 'MDD' was developed in the 50s that would temporarily cause the atmosphere to expand long enough for gamma rays to bombard the light side of the Earth.....I'm happy the pentagon brass voted against it...or DID they? :lol: Muhahahaha)

 

Here is a non-conspiracy-based informative link on the topic:

 

http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/earthmag/magnQ&A1.htm

 

 

BTW - my friends and I listen to the Art Bell show for laughs from time to time and recall a Velocavski fanatic claiming that there might be a 'PHYSICAL' shift of the poles as well :lol: Uh-huh....and we're ALL going to die and the government knows about it, too! (PS - not enough energy to cause a geophysical shift of that magnitude)

 

Regardless, I wont lose any sleep over the magnetic poles moving around. The most I'll lose is cell phone coverage for a little while I'll let all the conspiracy-theorists laugh at me if I'm wrong

 

Hey maybe its a big conspiracy by "South" to get more attention than "North" for all future compass manufacturing!

 

Edit - almost forgot my point -- the work on the energy problem is far from moot despite the gazillion theories out there that say we have X time to live I haven't seen any that pass the laugh test that cause me enough concern to abandon ship....unless I see one of Queen Azuth's mother ships make a dramatic entrance over Los Angeles.

Of more interesting geopolitical concern is what happens when the high tech dependant militaries of the West no longer have GPS or satellites to guide their bombs? A Polar shift might beget a political one as well.

[WKE235]

This was posted on CNN and in various papers back in December:

 

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- The strength of the Earth's magnetic field has decreased 10 percent over the past 150 years, raising the remote possibility that it may collapse and later reverse, flipping the planet's poles for the first time in nearly a million years, scientists said.

 

At that rate of decline, the field could vanish altogether in 1,500 to 2,000 years, said Jeremy Bloxham of Harvard University.

 

Hundreds of years could pass before a flip-flopped field returned to where it was 780,000 years ago. But scientists at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union cautioned that scenario is an unlikely one.

 

"The chances are it will not," Bloxham said Thursday. "Reversals are a rare event."

 

Instead, the weakening, measured since 1845, could represent little more than an "excursion," or lull, which can last for hundreds of years, said John Tarduno of the University of Rochester.

 

Such a lull could still have significant effects, especially in regions where the weakening is most pronounced.

 

Over the southern Atlantic Ocean, a continued weakening of the magnetic field has diminished the shielding effect it has locally in protecting the Earth from the natural radiation that bombards our planet from space, scientists said.

 

As a result, satellites in low-Earth orbit are left vulnerable to that radiation as they pass over the region, known as the South Atlantic anomaly.

 

Among the satellites that have fallen prey to the harmful effects was a Danish satellite designed, ironically, to measure the Earth's magnetic field, Bloxham said.

 

The weakening -- if coupled with a subsequently large influx of radiation in the form of protons streaming from the sun -- can also affect the chemistry of the atmosphere, said Charles Jackman of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center.

 

That can lead to significant but temporary losses of atmospheric ozone, he said.

 

 

For those interested in Magnetic shifts, the theories, timelines, etcetera... Nova has good program. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/magnetic/

 

 

I especially like the interactive at this site. Especially these statements that tie into the above:

 

The study of ancient lava flows in Oregon and elsewhere reveal that, before a reversal, the magnetic field is erratic and weakens drastically. The Glatzmaier-Roberts computer model behaves in a way that agrees with this process.

 

In the Glatzmaier-Roberts model, a reversal begins with additional north and south poles appearing at the core. These additional poles may not appear at the Earth's surface -- at least not initially -- though these islands of reversed polarity can weaken the overall magnetic field strength. (One such island has appeared beneath the South Atlantic Ocean.)

 

Tick, tick, tick......

[MadMartinB]

As long as it takes out the magnetic strips on my wife's credit cards I am fine,

[octagon999]

As long as it takes out the magnetic strips on my wife's credit cards I am fine,

Now that is genuinely funny!

 

Thanks, MMB.

[T'Lariss]

 

  3  Environmentaly, isn't it better to have several solar power satalites and dish farms than to stripmine the planet for coal?  wouln't it be more envirenmetally friendly to mine and haul a few million tons of Iron from a lifeless asteriod than to harm the local environment with a pit mine?  the mining of space and the utilization of ihe resources in local or near space is far and away the more envirnmentaly friendly option.  further we are many years away from automated Mining operations.  mines mean people.

Gary

 

I think you are right on here. If we spent $80 billion to develop the Earth Moon System to the point where ET mineral extraction and power generation were feasible we would benefit tremendously, and on many levels. Not only would we wean ourselves from dirty hydrocarbon based fuels but we would also stop stripmining. The US, for instance, is economically speaking out of Aluminium. We import many of the metals we need to maintain technological civilization. It is always cheaper in terms of energy to go 'down" than up. If we make the investment needed in building up the on-orbit infrastructure it will pay off, I am very confident of this.

 

I'd love to see a New Deal style Mass Infrastructure and job program that puts visionaries and engineers to work building up an Earth-Moon economy. These would be high paying jobs and only the Post-Industrial societies can do it. These are jobs that economically we would have a competetive advantage in cultivating. Instead of laying off the steel workers so they can work at McDonalds, lets build a Space Hilton so yupies can pay top doller to have sex in space.

 

 

just my two cents,

Shane

 

 

Solar power Satalites are feasable now and wuld not require anywhere near 80 billions. A series of solar power satalites in geo-synch obit constantly converting their energy to microwaves then beaming them to dish farms here on earth can be done now. once they are up and running the only cost ithe maintainance of the satalites and reciever dishes.. As for mining it would be far easier to mine out the near-earth asteroids before going back to Luna.(No real gravity well to lift against). Also we could (once we get the hang of things) move some of the larger near-earth bodies to one of the L-5 locations making things even easier to m mine(and then use as Hotel space or as a resarch station or whatever wlse is needed). There is so much that we could be dong that we are not that t makes one weep. all it requires is the will and a few megabucks to get it done. A lot of the technology is available now the rest could be developed with the right experiance and a littel time. Give me the 1/10th of the HUD budget for 2 years and we wold be looking at manned trips to Mars as regula events and the power problems of the world would pretty much go away.(It would also mean the end of the power of OPEC as the only use for Oil would be jet fuel and plastics). Sigh.

Sorry guys I have been a space nut for years and years one of the few things I am honestly passionate about, used to be a member ofthe L-5 Society back when I thought the government had the will to explore.

Gary ( A Frustrated Explorer)

[Azuth]

Solar power Satalites are feasable now and wuld not require anywhere near 80 billions. A series of solar power satalites in geo-synch obit constantly converting their energy to microwaves then beaming them to dish farms here on earth can be done now. once they are up and running the only cost ithe maintainance of the satalites and reciever dishes.. As for mining it would be far easier to mine out the near-earth asteroids before going back to Luna.(No real gravity well to lift against). Also we could (once we get the hang of things) move some of the larger near-earth bodies to one of the L-5 locations making things even easier to m mine(and then use as Hotel space or as a resarch station or whatever wlse is needed). There is so much that we could be dong that we are not that t makes one weep. all it requires is the will and a few megabucks to get it done. A lot of the technology is available now the rest could be developed with the right experiance and a littel time. Give me the 1/10th of the HUD budget for 2 years and we wold be looking at manned trips to Mars as regula events and the power problems of the world would pretty much go away.(It would also mean the end of the power of OPEC as the only use for Oil would be jet fuel and plastics). Sigh.

Sorry guys I have been a space nut for years and years one of the few things I am honestly passionate about, used to be a member ofthe L-5 Society back when I thought the government had the will to explore.

Gary ( A Frustrated Explorer)

 

I'm right there with you with frustation Gary. We could be doing so much but no one is doing anything much about it. I've been a member of the Planetary Society for years, hoping they get folks interested enough to go out there and explore and so forth. Wish I had Bill Gates money, then there would be some action.

[T'Aleen Empire]

Hmmmm ...Bill Gates....hmmmm lets see...a Bill Gates Spaceship...

 

ok system crashed...blue screen of death...quick before we crash...REBOOT!!!

[Griss]

  seem to remember hearing that the Earth's magnetic field offers protection from the charged particles of the Solar Wind by causing such particles to go around the Earth.  If the magnetic field changes, in strength or direction, would this protection from charged particles also change?

 

 

On Nova they said that the magnetic field prevents the atmosphere from being stripped away by solar wind. The theory is that Mars has little or no atmosphere because it has little or no magnetic field.