Ur Lord Tedric Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Thought I'd open this one after going back through the Diplomacy chapter having met my first neutral. Players are now starting to meet and probably communicating by either phone or e-mail. But has anyone started the in-game diplomacy route? There does seem to be the necessity of establishing formal relations (which I like heaps by the way) and building up some 'level of relationship' points. This can lead to establishing the formal styles of relationship that can exist between player-controlled empires, which one needs to underpin the ROE options in combat. I think a little 2 page treatise on the subject would be damn useful about now. How about it Pete & Russ? Underemployed Chief Diplomat to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 My biggest gripe in this area is that, if I read the rules correctly, you are allowed to have an allegiance with only 1 position at a time. Doesnt quite make sense to me as groups of 3 or more players could conceivably band together to defend or attack another. The way it is now only 2 player positions may be in an alliance and a third empire that would be considered friendly outside the game could be considered hostile in game under certain ROE scenerios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cargus10 Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 I'll second the call for a small 1-2 page guideline sheet from Russ and Pete on this...when they get the time, of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 I believe that what the rules actual say is that you can only swear allegiance to 1 empire, but that many people can swear allegiance to the same empire and that makes you part of a bigger alliance. Something about ranking within the alliance based on the number of empires swearing allegiance to you. This too has it's problems if it works as billed since you could find yourself allied to folks you don't want to be allied to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKO Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 But I guess it will be possible to build up points with neighbours even without being in the same alliance structure. If you trade goods, peacefully share orbits or share colonies on the same planet, that should give you points with that empire, shouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Who knows what builds up points. It has always been my understanding that player alliances were not bound by the point thing and that that only applied to dealings with neutrals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKO Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 I thought the point thing was equal to players and neutrals. A few of the diplomatic statusses mentioned (like non agression pact, trade pact, military alliance etc) are player to player statusses and the rules mention that, for example, to have a non-agression pact, you have "to build up a sufficient number of diplomatic favor points before the Pact can be signed." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted July 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Ah and the reason a little treatise is required is obvious! As I understand it there are 3 different facets to diplomacy. 1) There's neutrals you can try and get to join your empire, or get to leave an empire they're already with. 2) There's establishing relationships with player-empires you meet and building up 'relationship points'. However, there isn't an order to do this yet - it's missing, along with the 'Send Message' order too. These relationships ar what underpin your ROE options. 3) There's the ALLG order which allows you to formally join an in-game hierarchical alliance. However, this has nothing to do with 2 above and if you haven't established the relationship in '2', then it has no effect. However, it does show who your friends are. And it's obvious - you can't swear your allegiance to more than one person. All other relationships, including 'alliances' can be done through 2... Trying to Understand Chief Diplomat to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Here are some excerpts from the old board that may shed some more light on the topic. After reading this again it looks like you can only swear allegiance to 1 empire, but you can have as many other diplomatic arrangements as you like. The rub is that there is no mechanism to establish any diplomatic agreements between empires. The Dip order is specifically for dealing with neutrals, not with players. According to the description two player empires that are of like mind would just submit orders to creat an alliance or NAP or whatever and then they would have it ( sounds like the Victory system). The only problem is that an order does not exhist for this. Maybe we just have to email Pete our intentions and he will do it manually? In any event it seems pretty clear that diplomatic agreements ie., non-agression pacts, trade pacts, military alliance etc. are not to be confused with allegiance. You should be able to have lots of the former and only one of the later option. I would then surmise that an allegiance is how you get into an alliance and some other mechanism allows players to be total allies, allies etc., From the Ezboard Q - Is Swear Allegiance an in-game or out-of-game alliance? Do sworn allegiances affect ROEs? A - RTGPete Administrator(9/1/02 4:46 pm)Reply Re: Swear Allegiance Allegiances currently do not affect Rules of Engagement settings. Only the regular alliance types (all of those mentioned in the ROE settings) have any effect there. This prevents a supposed "friend" in your Allegiance from moving freely through your space. Your ROE settings would still initiate an engagement should he stray too far inside your sphere of influence, protecting you from a player who joins the same Allegiance to deliberately gain immunity from your forces. Pete DormanRolling Thunder Games, Inc. Pete@rollingthunder.comsupernova@rollingthunder.com (SuperNova) Q - Are there any plans to provide additional benefits to "alliances" that have formed up with the Swear Allegiance orders? A - Sure, if allegiances get big and additional features are a popular idea, I can add more code to handle it. I wouldn't expect any special "powers" in the game that aren't earned by the individual Empires (by research, conquest and so forth). Pete DormanRolling Thunder Games, Inc. Pete@rollingthunder.comsupernova@rollingthunder.com (SuperNova) Q - Allegiances and Cooperative Research - Will sworn allies be able to "share" a research effort? Or does that open up the abuse door too wide? A - Knowledge of a technology (of any sort--a horizon tech such as ground unit items or Items that you can construct) cannot be transferred between Empires, whether they are sworn to one another or not. Items constructed by an Empire can be freely given to another Empire, but the research end is indeed abusable This introduces a deliberate philosophical separation of Empires; production and trade of constructed Items pulls them together again. Pete DormanRolling Thunder Games, Inc. Pete@rollingthunder.comsupernova@rollingthunder.com (SuperNova) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Here is another post from Pete on the subject of points between players. quote - from Pete I am considering lifting the diplomatic points requirements between players to avoid complication. This would make it a lot easier for players to simply make their own decisions on the spot. Pete Dorman Rolling Thunder Games, Inc. Pete@rollingthunder.com supernova@rollingthunder.com (SuperNova) dw@rollingthunder.com (DungeonWorld) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 I agree that this area needs like many others clearing up now that people are finally running into each other...noone in my area of space though What I would like to have cleared up is the whole trade issue, can you have popgroups on the same world from two different empires that freely can Transfer Items between each other either with the use of LC/OC or TCs? or is this impossible? It would be nice to know ahead of time what we can expect as doable so as not to build up trade colonies or let the other guy walk on over to our homeworld just to find it doesn't work? Wary empires will not let other empires build pop groups on their HWs how ever much that would ease the transfer of technological items but the setting up of an efficient trade colony between two empires is also a huge undertaking and I think it would benefit the game and player interaction if this was delved into more deeply and made easier /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 You can have as many pop groups on a world as you like from as many different empires as you like. Trade can happen with TC's or with the LC/OC orders. Seems pretty straightforward.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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