Deep Core Surveyor

[Prospective]

I understand that Deep Core Surveyors are "deep tunneling units that search the core of a planet for additional resources" and "may discover new veins of any of a variety of valuable resources".

 

How does that work practically? I mean, do you send it out and get "hits" similar to that of what is found with special characters? OR, does it increase the yield values of random resources on a per turn basis?

 

Also, it sounds like that the benefits of multiple DCS's drops off pretty dramatically. Has anyone got more than one currently working? Is it useful to go with two? Is it useful to go with more than two?

 

Anyone?

 

Thanks.

 

Steve

[hobknob]

You build one and it sits around. If it is powered you get chance every turn for it to find an additional deposit of some material. That is a permanent increase int he yield for that resource.

 

That is all there is to it.

 

[Prospective]

WOW, that seems to be pretty significant. I mean, there are 22 possible resources (24 if you count Geothermal and Hydroelectric). So, that means I have a 1/22nd (or 1/24th) chance of increasing the Yield of Iron or Crystals or Lumber permanently, EACH TURN it's powered? Dang, now THAT is nice.

 

What are the drawbacks (other than the expense of building/running one)? Are we talking like +1 or +2 points to the yields, or are we talking like +5%, +10%, +15%?

 

That sounds pretty nice. Is there a maximum value to a planetary yield?

 

Thanks again!!

[Sakarissa]

My first turn of hits was an increase of +1 to Industrial Chemicals and +6 to Crystals. According to the Powers That Be, each resource you have a yield for has a chance for an increase in the same turn. It could increase nothing or 10 yields in a single turn. The 100,000 points of power per turn is well worth the investment.

 

Sakarissa

[Damiano]

In that respect it's a shame it doesn't generate yields of new items, guess we need to use ICE-1 for that.

[WKE235]

My first turn of hits was an increase of +1 to Industrial Chemicals and +6 to Crystals. According to the Powers That Be, each resource you have a yield for has a chance for an increase in the same turn. It could increase nothing or 10 yields in a single turn. The 100,000 points of power per turn is well worth the investment.

 

Sakarissa 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't forget ... just like a character, it's not a sure thing you will get an increase. Each Deep Core Surveyor has a random chance to increase the yield. So, even when powered, sometimes you'll get an increase, sometimes nada.

 

As to if it's worth the investment ... producing 100,000 power per turn for one unit is a lot of power. If you're not blessed with high Hydro or Geothermal, you're talking 10 Fusion Power plants or 5,000,000 Construction Materials. That's 30,000,000 Lumber and 15,000,000 Iron. And that's before the 250,000 Advanced CM cost for the Deep Core Surveyor.

 

What will it take to make back 45,000,000 in resources? Lets say you have an iron resource that starts at 500. And lets even say the Deep Core surveyor works every turn and increases the yield by 10. In 52 turns (two years from now), the iron yield would be up to 1020 (truely impressive). But, during that two years, assuming you built the needed Iron mines each turn, you would have just gotten over 46,000,000 iron more than if the yield had stayed at 500. IN other words, the pay back on the investment for one Deep Core Surveyor and associated power plants is a minimum of two years time. And that's assuming maximum growth each time, and getting a boost every turn. Given that the odds are random and you will get less than 10 .. odds are the payback is in the three to four year time range.

 

As for multiple .. Ask MMB. He supposedly was able to invest heavily (due to his early conquests) and had 5 or 6 DCS on his HW (along with a high Hydro value so hiw power costs were quite a bit cheaper).

[Locklyn]

I agree with WKEs rather depressing assessment of the DCS as it stands today. If you've got the power and the advanced conmat to bout it might be a good thing. Also untill recently the DCS were really buggy. I had ten plus turns of nothing and then when Pete changed the reporting system I have been getting regular hits every turn.

 

 

/Locklyn

[ali-t-akua]

What will it take to make back 45,000,000 in resources?... odds are the payback is in the three to four year time range

 

Based on a rough calculation I am wondering if you would not be better off building ICMs and the IICs to support them. The payback for this would be in the two year range.

[Damiano]

Eventually I see a situation where you need all your population working in mines and Industrial complexes and never need to use stripminers ever again, in fact you will probably end up struggling to find enough pop to man the IC's you need to convert all your resources into the finished products.

[Mechanica]

Hmmm. I must be missing something. I'm currently upgrading from Stripmining to Improved Stripmining and I've got ConMats out the wazooo. I'm recouping in excess of 1.2 million conmats per turn and have stockpiles on both my HW and colony in excess of 3 million. Just converting from SM to ISM will give you over 42 million conmats.

[WKE235]

Hmmm.  I must be missing something.  I'm currently upgrading from Stripmining to Improved Stripmining and I've got ConMats out the wazooo.  I'm recouping in excess of 1.2 million conmats per turn and have stockpiles on both my HW and colony in excess of 3 million.  Just converting from SM to ISM will give you over 42 million conmats.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Build Improved CM's, use them to build Improved IC's, and then use the CM's from that for power. So in addition to the eventual DCS you build, you get increased production capability. And ... build Improved Heavy Machinery, build Improved Stripmines, and build up the CM's for the power behind the DCS (giving you increase Raw Resource production).

 

Lets see, each IIC or ISM costs 500 (ICM or IHM respectively). That's a cost of 4500 resources (lumber and Iron). Now, lets say you build 3 IIC and 1 ISM. The three IIC can just about process process the one ISM output (3000 Raw) to produce 300 resources (750 * 3 * 1.3 = 2925, assuming you have 3rd Gen Industrial Science). It cost 4 x 4500 = 18000 resources to build them. So total payback on the investment is 18000 / 300 => 60 turns.

 

Now we add in the DCS. You eventually replace 10,000 combined IIC and ISM, netting the 5,000,000 CM. Those 10,000 combined IIC and ISM will (roughly) generate 750,000 resources per turn. Adding this into what you get from optimal DCS increases and that's around 35 turns for a total payback now. Since that is optimal growth, and the DCS will produce less ... total is maybe around 40-50 turns, and SO, payback is still 1 1/2 to two years time.

 

Not, this is not an arguement against the DCS or ICM and ISM's. Yes, there is a payback period. And yes during this time, you are at a slight (repeat slight) disadvantage versus an opponent who put the resources into building Siege Cannons on really big ships. Well, if you put all your resources into building ISM and ICM (and eventually DCS) every turn, you would have more than a slight disadvantage (you need to build something for defense to at least slow them down). But putting some resources into DCS's (if they are working) and Improved IC's and SM's can be very worth it in the long run. For as your get close to that payback point, you move into a very superior production posistion versus those who have not changed over / built DCS's.

[Mechanica]

WKE you have a valid point on the payback that I'm not disagreeing with. My point is that in the normal process of updating your infrastructure, in which you are replacing items that were prebuilt at the start of the game (ie no cost to you), you are receiving the materials needed to build the power facilities. In other words for every 500 Improved Heavy Machinery I construct not only do I receive an ISM but I get back 500 conmats by dismantling the old facility. As I mentioned previously fully upgrading my SMs to ISMs on the HW would result in 42,500,000 conmats by dismantling the old facilities.

 

Now being somewhat prudent and fortunately blessed with a 485 hydroelectric yield on my HW I can build 10 Hydroelectric plants to cover the expected 100,000 power requirement. Cost 2,500,000 conmats. Even if I had to build 100 hydro plants my construction costs would be covered.

 

So for me, my payback costs would be the materials actually needed to construct the DCS.

[Sssarass]

One more thought to consssider, isss what elssse are you going to ussse your lumber for? It basssically is a free resssource on HW to be usssed to build A/I/IC or SssM'sss or a DCSss. Ssso until you need to build CM'sss to build a power plant there is only the DCSss ACM cossst.

 

CTO, Sssarasss

 

PSss Ussse Antimatter Power Plantsss (ssso much nicer)

[hobknob]

In my scenario I will upgrade to Advanced Stripmines which frees up almost 100,000 pop shich will then use up all of my stockpiles of CM's to put them back to work either on the HW or on a colony. Even with a stockpile of 20M CM's I will have unemplyed pop all over the place.

 

[WKE235]

Note that I do have a DCS on my HW, chugging along nicely. The very first find the crew made as ... Lumber (+5). Just like Journey to the Center of the Earth ... or fringe theories about the Hollow Earth. I can just imagine the DCS calling back to base on this one.

 

Captain Kra-zac presses a button on his command chair armrest. "DCS-1 to base, DCS-1 to base." he calls out.

"Base here DCS-1."

Sounding a little on edge, Kra-zac presses down once more. "Base, can you confirm the position of DCS-1. We appear to be having a malfunction in our GP system."

"Base here DCS-1. GP shows you currently at Z -7.38 units relative to surface position 834.34 vector 451.09. What is the nature of the malfuction DCS-1".

"Base, this is DCS-1. We confirm our GP coordinates match yours". After a brief hesitation, Kra-zac continues. "If there is no malfunction, then it appears the Surveyor module has entered into a large wooded area".

"Base to DCS-1. Please repeat your last statement. You've entered into a wooded area?".

"Well..." continued the Captain "I'm staring out the view port right now, and I see ... trees. Lots of them. And plants. And bushes. All under a pale glowing red light from above".

"BASE TO DCS-1. This is important. One of the first signs of Ammonia depletion are hallucinations and unusual lights. It is HIGHLY critical that you check your filters and environmental controls."

"DCS-1 to Base. We checked all controls before contacting you base .. twice. There really does appaer to be a forest down here".

 

 

Well .. it either happened like this, OR, someone looked closely at a map and realized Gee ... we've never explored this blank spot on the surface. Wonder what's there.