Clan Elder 'Keen Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Every couple months a prospective player comes along, asks some questions, gets some insight into the game, and then the thread gets buried somewhere deep in the forums. I thought it might be helpful to begin to collect the typical information a starting player would find valuable in regards to racial design, SRP purchases, early starship design, production, etc. In this way new players might feel less at a disadvantage to the elders. Please feel free to add your own thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted October 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Racial Design: Specialist or Generalist? “Brain in a Jar” goes for the max research bonus at the expense of physical prowess. This is a popular design template considering the importance of technology. It also tends to do quite well with space combat bonuses due to overlap. “Ground Pounder” does the reverse by purchasing increased constitution/size/strength/speed and specialized traits at the cost of research potential. Just keep in mind that typically space combat precedes ground combat so this specialist race can be a gamble unless you are entering the game at the same time as friends and are earmarked as the army guy. Colonizers look toward rapid growth and bonuses to reduce attrition. There is more luck involved in this approach than any other, as there is a wide variation in start-up positions in regards to homesystem size and resource potentials. It could be that the ultimate colonizing race ends up with nothing to colonize within several warp jumps. Another aspect of the luck of the draw is cooler homeworlds tend to be better for colonizers as it allows easier access to rich asteroid fields. If you definitely want to colonize, it may take a couple set-up to get a decent starting location. A generalist tends to spread out into all or most of the above directions, and does not take any severe handicaps. If blessed with a large rich homesystem then colonization is an option. Decent research capability paired with decent ground units provides a well rounded military. Just be careful of competing against specialists in their area of expertise! But the biggest impact on your empire’s future can be made by keeping at least a couple hundred SRPs for tech purchases. It gives a quicker start in the game regardless of your objectives; a colonizer can get faster engines to move more people, an explorer better Jump Survey Sensors, or a warmonger all those shooty bits that make loud noises. And buying the first tiers of tech provides a head start down that particular tech tree if research is continued at the standard pace. If I where to do it all over again I think I would design for approximately 500 SRPs remaining for technology. Production: I recall getting my first turn and being very freaked out over the complexity of the game and the number of decisions to make. Decisions about production can easily be put off from the first turn until you get a better idea of which direction to head in. Simply do the following: BI, 99999999, Iron, Popgroup#, 999, Yes This will funnel all remaining production into Iron. You will always have a high demand for Iron as it is used in everything from Fuel Tankage to groundunits to high tech starship armor. Then later on other items can be added to the queue ahead of this order but you will never ever leave idle industry unless you run out of raw resources. Research: Depth versus Breadth I strongly suggest starting down the most important tech trees as soon as possible and stick with them throughout the game. Which trees you value as “important” will vary depending on your objectives, but there are some widely favored technologies. In no particular order: starship armor, at least one weapon system, engines, and Industrial tech (hint start off with Psychology). After that I would also include Jump Survey Sensors up to Mk III or IV, and Space and Computer horizons which turn out to be very important technologies in opening up other advances. The standard rule of thumb is that you can purchase the next three levels of tech or up to a Good rating with SRPs. So for starship armor you start with Standard Hull Plate which is a Poor rating, and could buy Titanium -> Selenite Battleweave -> Cordellium Composite over three turns and then put Vananite in regular research. When looking at the improved and advanced components, keep in mind that the tech tree for most of these items is a deadend, ie once you finish them there is no new technology that follows (Advanced Superconductor is a notable exception in that it is really a horizon tech and not a component). So you can research the ones you need right away (steel, electronics, synthetic materials, etc) and rotate others into your queues as the opportunity or need presents itself. On the other hand, if you put all of the improved materials in your queue, and the replace them all with advanced materials, you are probably falling behind in other technologies that have far deeper tech trees. And some of the improved/advanced materials are of dubious value (anyone figure out what to do with Plantfoods yet?). Exploration: Get out there as quick as possible! The longer you wait, the closer your neighbors get to your homesystem. It is far better to meet at the midpoint (or closer to their homesystem) and negotiate a border. Or if you are so inclined, the closer you are to them after initial contact then the quicker you can locate and acquire their goodies. A single Mk III Jump Survery Sensors will break most D warp points, and with an Explorer character you can get an E. If you group five sensors together you can get a jump up one level of difficulty. There are a variety of ways to go about exploring. Some like to PMAP and GEO every orbit location they encounter, so explored space slowly expands outward with full discover. Other players focus on the warp mapping first and follow up later with PMAP/GEO as the nearest systems are colonized. If you are looking for another player’s homeworld their ships usually give them away, but you only need to PMAP the primary planets (ie no moons, asteroid fields, or gas giants). Starting ships (Pathfinders and Bastions) are excellent indicators of proximity. There are also different ways to approach ship construction for exploration; a lot of small slow ships versus fewer bigger ships that are capable of multiple warp jumps. The first gives you an ever expanding ring of ships that increases the odds of bumping into another player’s ships since you occupy more locations in space concurrently. The second allows more efficient use of produced material and assigned characters. My preferred strategy is a little of each and I use the bigger ships to map the harder warp points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Every couple months a prospective player comes along, asks some questions, gets some insight into the game, and then the thread gets buried somewhere deep in the forums. I thought it might be helpful to begin to collect the typical information a starting player would find valuable in regards to racial design, SRP purchases, early starship design, production, etc. In this way new players might feel less at a disadvantage to the elders. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great idea. Eternus has already created summation of all of Pete's comments on the game. Maybe this could be posted somewhere as part of this effort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Every couple months a prospective player comes along, asks some questions, gets some insight into the game, and then the thread gets buried somewhere deep in the forums. I thought it might be helpful to begin to collect the typical information a starting player would find valuable in regards to racial design, SRP purchases, early starship design, production, etc. In this way new players might feel less at a disadvantage to the elders. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great idea. Eternus has already created summation of all of Pete's comments on the game. Maybe this could be posted somewhere as part of this effort? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I could post it again, too. I even thought about being slightly controversial and publishing a tech tree that would help new players plan their research out as much as a year ahead...if somebody else hasn't done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Every couple months a prospective player comes along, asks some questions, gets some insight into the game, and then the thread gets buried somewhere deep in the forums. I thought it might be helpful to begin to collect the typical information a starting player would find valuable in regards to racial design, SRP purchases, early starship design, production, etc. In this way new players might feel less at a disadvantage to the elders. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Great idea. Eternus has already created summation of all of Pete's comments on the game. Maybe this could be posted somewhere as part of this effort? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I could post it again, too. I even thought about being slightly controversial and publishing a tech tree that would help new players plan their research out as much as a year ahead...if somebody else hasn't done it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As there are tech sharing alliances out there that are willing to accept new members, I think that would be unnecessary (and remove the opportunity to interact with others early in the game). And Please post it again. Maybe Russ could make it a sticky post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Just a few comments to get started. 1) I would not go woth a dedicated ground pounder unless youare starting with a group of folks that intend to link up and be a power. Instead I would go for a colonizer. The also can make very good ground guys if you pick the right stuff, in addition you can be doping the colonization thing while you wait. 2) Having run numerous positions I would say that more than about 500 SRP's is a waste. Early in the game you needed alot to try and flesh out the tree since it was all new. Now there is plenty of information to target your research. 3) I think the most important thing you can do to enhace your game experience is to get yourself a good set of spreadsheets. Making your own is generally best since you know what you want, but if you are not so capable or short on time there are several player generated aids that are very helpful. On of the best aids for down the road is Cestval's SNpathfinder program. I would be lost without it. 4) No matter what we all say about lifeform design, you need to be happy with what you have. Talk to Pete before hand if you think you have very specific lifeform design needs. ( it never hurts to ask ) In the end, if your set up does not work with your lifeform then drop it and try again. Better to start over early if you don't like since this is a very long lived game. Just make sure that you are happy with what you get. 5) Interaction is what makes this game fun so you should plan on exploring from the get go. I know there are those that don't really want to explore much, but I find that rather boring. Different strokes I suppose. Anyway, if you make contact then the game is more enjoyable. 6) Ask questions. There are plenty of folks with loads of experience that are very willing to answer questions for free. Most of all plan on having fun. The game isn't perfect adn there are plenty of errors, but it is still the best game in town. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasn Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 "there are tech sharing alliances out there that are willing to accept new members, ..." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who are these alliances and how does a new player become a member? I was told once that membership was by invitation only. How does a player solicit an invitation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Drasn, There is the Crossroads trading group intiated by the player of the same name on these boards. Lord Uriel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 (edited) The most useful alliance is the one you make with your near neighbors. To get an invite you need to explore until you find them and then set up your alliance that way. Early in the game there were several alliances that formed before it was so apparent that contact may never actually happen. Most of those folded or went underground when the true state of game mechanics was figured out. A few may still be around, but entrance is generally limited to actual contact with alliance neighbors. There were also some alliances strictly to share tech info, but those have pretty much dried up since the intial 3-4 levels of tech have pretty much been established. Most of that informations is freely available for a new player simply by asking around for it. Much has been posted in various threads and still more has changed hands behind the scenes. Edited October 21, 2005 by hobknob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Publishing a Tech Tree of lower level Techs would be useful to new players, but what portions would you publish? The Path to Selenite Battleweave? Nuclear Transwarp Drives? 1st Gen Genetic Engineering? Mk VI Fusion Engines? Mk III Jump Survey Sensors? Antimatter Power Complex? Orbital Crystal Refinery? All techs with a 'Poor' rating? Items you can buy with SRPs? Lots of choices ... -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasn Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Drasn,There is the Crossroads trading group intiated by the player of the same name on these boards. Lord Uriel <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks. I had asked about alliances a while back, and specifically mentioned Crossroads alliance. That's when I was told 'invitation only'. I didn't get an invitation so I dropped the subject. Of course I never asked Crossroads directly. Stupid me. Guess I didn't want to be too pushy. Anyway I'll drop Crossroads a line in the next few days. Tonight I'm focused on assembling my new computer!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumVie Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Publishing a Tech Tree of lower level Techs would be useful to new players, but what portions would you publish? The Path to Selenite Battleweave? Nuclear Transwarp Drives? 1st Gen Genetic Engineering? Mk VI Fusion Engines? Mk III Jump Survey Sensors? Antimatter Power Complex? Orbital Crystal Refinery? All techs with a 'Poor' rating? Items you can buy with SRPs? That was something published by Norm & myself from the PA group many months ago. It is early tech but it shows how to get to the first industries and such. Drop me a line if you want a copy. I may have time to update it abit. Good Cheer, Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 There is also since way way back an anz&inst document with the early techs on the rtg site under playaids that our alliance made. It hasn't been updated to represent the integriyty and actual FP figures we have now a days thoug but it is a start /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 I find that with all of the information and (generally speaking) friendly helpfulness of the players, this forum is a giant, interactive SN:ROTE for Dummies. There is all kinds of good stuff and good people here. Sometimes its like a thorny, hedge maze but there are usually folks around to guide you past most of the pricks (pun intended). My thanks to you all for making SN:ROTE as enjoyable an open-ended space PBeM as any I've been a part of. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SargonKingOfSlith Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Here is my opinion on Research. And yes, I know, everyone has an opinion. I'd recommend saving 300 to 500 points. Others will need to check the math on the points that I list here. My information involves a lot of sketchy guesswork. First and foremost - you need Jump Survey Sensors. In my opinion, this is the absolute top priority. Mk II Jump Survey Sensor 2nd Generation Space Science Mk III Jump Survey Sensor Cost: 51 points If your Government and Tradition attract lots of Explorer characters then you can research the hard way from here. Otherwise you should buy up to the next level. 3rd Generation Space Science Mk IV Jump Survey Sensor Cost: 75 points Next you have decisions to make about Bridge Systems, Sensors, Engines, and Jump Drives. I'm not going to discuss Weapons and Armor here. If you want to spend saved points on those, then pick your categories and go with it. Ship design basically follows a 10% principal (after you achieve a respectable tech level). Design a ship so that the mass comes out as 10% Fuel Tankage, 10% Engines, 10% Jump Drives, 10% Sensors, 10% Bridge Systems, and the rest weapons, armor or other specialized stuff. Beginning bridge and sensor technology is pretty close to worthless. You need to research better tech before you begin building ships (other than just transport ships), otherwise you will end up with a large mass of fleet tonnage that is not offset by equivalent Bridge Strength. The same can be said about Sensors. If you want to keep it simple, research Computers and Short Range Sensors. Mk II Short Range Sensor Mk III Short Range Sensor 10% Design: Sensor Rating 1 Mk II Computer System Mk III Computer System 10% Design: Fire Control 9 Cost: 78 If you are willing to commit to a much higher level of research for the rest of the game, then don't research Mk x Computer Systems, just research Sensors. Short, Medium, then Long Range Sensors eventually leads to FFS, which is a Bridge System. I would recommend following a stair step pattern, although you don’t technically need to. In other words, I recommend researching up to Mk III Short Range Sensor, Mk II Medium Range Sensor, and Mk I Long Range Sensor. Then assign 3 research centers to research the hard way, so that you always have the prerequisite for the next stair step. Mk II Short Range Sensor Mk III Short Range Sensor Mk I Medium Range Sensor Mk II Medium Range Sensor Mk I Long Range Sensor FFS-1 Fleet Formation Scanner 10% Design: Sensor Rating 1 10% Design: Fire Control 16 Cost: 132 You can shave a few points off by not buying the Mk II’s and Mk III’s, but then you have to catch up the hard way. And on the other hand, you can skip Sensors completely if you aren’t worried about people sneaking around behind your back. But you will definitely need bridge systems. What I have to say about Engines may start an argument. Others on this forum have said that high action point fleets are an absolute must. Sure, high action point fleets are nice, but they are very expensive to research. You have to get up to Mk III Fusion Engines before a 10% design has more than 2 Action Points. That takes 135 points. (Again, I could be wrong about the research points, it may be more.) MK II Nuclear Engine Mk I Fusion Engine Mk II Fusion Engine Mk III Fusion Engine 10% Design: 4 Action Points Cost: 135 I have been running my empires on 2AP fleets since the beginning. Every ship has a single Mk I Nuclear Engine. That’s because I didn’t save any points, and I still haven’t finished researching Mk III Fusion Engines. I’m investing the time to research the hard way, so maybe that means I agree the high AP fleets are important. But my point is, it IS possible to run an empire on 2AP fleets. Just hope you find a trading partner who can supply you with Engines later in the game. As with Bridge Systems and Sensors, it is your preference if you want to commit to higher levels of research, or keep it simple. I hope I’m not giving away any secrets here. I’m pretty sure the path to Transwarp Drives has already been given out. (Transwarp Drives allow you to keep moving after a WARP order.) First you need the Superconductor, then Mk I Force Shield. You also need Improved Fuel, then Advanced Fuel. It only takes 3 points for the Superconductor, but I wouldn’t pay for it with the saved points. You can research it the hard way while buying the other stuff above. Then as you research Jump Drives, you gain access to Transwarp Drives. The Transwarp Drives only take 3 points themselves. I had several research hits involved, so I’m not sure how many points Advanced Fuel takes. But it looks to me like you should plan 40-45 points to get the Nuclear Transwarp Drive, or an extra 27 points for the Fusion Transwarp Drive. You can only buy 1 technology per turn – the one that is in slot 1. Count up the number of turns that it will take to complete your purchase plan. Meanwhile, the other 24 slots will be used to research things the hard way. It takes 12 turns (unless you have a racial Research Bonus) to research the Improved resources. I’d recommend researching the 11 resources involved with construction materials and ships components (not the food and weapons). This way you can begin building the better ship components as you finish researching them. After that I would cut back to maybe 5 research centers working on advanced materials. This should be enough to get you “over the hump”. If you are a War Monger, or concerned about your defense against War Mongers, then you may save more points to be used on weapons and armor. But combat strategy is a whole different topic. Horizon Technology is another thing I didn’t mention. I don’t necessarily think that saved points should be spent on Horizon Technologies, but they are still very important. They also require enormous amounts of research. I have had 10 to 15 research centers working on all the Horizon Technologies throughout the entire game. If you join one of the information sharing groups and really study the tech tree meticulously, then you may be able to save yourself some research time by not researching some of the applied sciences. But be very careful, they all lead to useful technologies. Well, if this isn’t enough to think about, then just dive in and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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