Fighters and Range

[Prospective]

Ok, here's a question about fighters and range.

 

I just took a close look at the range listing for a Fighter in an ANZ (I have always assumed it was Long or Standoff) and found it's shown as Beam range. From my understanding, Beam type weapons perform optimally (no penalties) from Deploc 2. However, carrier tactics state that they be put at Deploc 12.

 

So, if I put the carriers at Deploc 12, the fighters being Beam range weapon systems will suffer a 10% penalty per Deploc out of optimum. This would be deploc12 - deploc2 = 10 * 10% = 100%. Since the maximum penalty is supposed to be 95%, that means that a fighter launched at deploc 12 would inflict only 5% of its rated damage.

 

Have I missed something here? Does this mean that in order for fighters to be 100% effective, I need to place my carriers in Deploc 2???? That doesn't seem right.

 

Can anyone shed some light on this? Can fighters be designated to operate out of a specific deploc? The revised Naval combat document doesn't seem to make mention of this and it actually recommends that carriers be stationed at Deploc 12.

 

Thanks.

[Hughestrog]

Don't know.

 

But going on what you've just said Prospective, you could either include your carriers at DepLoc 12 and have fighters which aren't as effective (but your carriers would be relatively safe), or you could have them operating fairly effectively, with the prospect of losing your carrier!

 

Things about combat still seem foggy.

[Locklyn]

Prospective,

 

While you can put your carriers at any Deployment Location, Fighters and Drones will ALWAYS move to DL 1 and attack from there. So no penalties involved.

 

Cheers

 

/Locklyn

[Prospective]

Thanks for the responses Hughstrong and Locklyn.

 

I had thought there was some sort of discrepancy and you've confirmed it Locklyn. So fighters will proceed to operate out of Deploc 1 regardless of where the carriers are.

 

A further question regarding fighters. If the defender has no point defense/CIDS and you launch 1 Fighter Bay worth of Fighters (100 units), for each round of combat, the fighters will suffer zero attrition, right? Or do they naturally lose a small percentage due to accidents, equipment failure, etc?

 

 

 

Also, regarding ranges. My understanding is they break down as follows:

 

Point blank optimum at deploc 1

Beam optimum at deploc 2?? or 1??

Short optimum at deploc ???

Medium optimum at deploc ???

Long optimum at deploc ???

Standoff optimum at deploc 12???

 

Can anyone fill in the ???

 

Thanks.

 

Steve

[ali-t-akua]

So fighters will proceed to operate out of Deploc 1 regardless of where the carriers are.

 

There is no discrepency, this is the advantage of fighters and drones. The ships can remain at maximum range while the fighters and drones can close in.

 

A further question regarding fighters. If the defender has no point defense/CIDS and you launch 1 Fighter Bay worth of Fighters (100 units), for each round of combat, the fighters will suffer zero attrition, right? Or do they naturally lose a small percentage due to accidents, equipment failure, etc?

 

As I understand it, there is no attrition if there is no PD. In addition, PD also reduces the weapons effect from fighters on a specific ship so Fighteres and Drones will attack at full strength.

 

I believe that the range information has been published in the last year here on the forum.

[ali-t-akua]

This is from Sargon on May 24, 2005

 

Point Blank [1], 20% dropoff per DL

Short [2], 10% dropoff per DL

Medium [5], 10% dropoff per DL

Long [8], 10% dropoff per DL

Standoff [10], 10% dropoff per DL

 

 

I believe that the defender also gets a dropoff from DL but I am not sure. Maybe someone with more experience can respond here.

[Prospective]

Thanks Ali,

 

Any ideas where Beam range fits into the picture?

 

Perhaps Deploc 1 with a 10% falloff? Can anyone confirm this assumption?

 

Thanks.

[ali-t-akua]

I believe that Beam is Point Blank Range.

[Prospective]

Not to doubt you, but if they were the same, why are there 2 distinct names when you look at the new version of ANZ's?

 

I've seen an ANZ for that lists range as Beam, then another ANZ for a different weapon system with range as Point Blank.

 

Thanks.

[ShadowKitsune]

I thought Beam was between Short and Medium Range.

 

Anybody check the Naval Supplement Doc to see if its in there?

 

-SK

[SargonKingOfSlith]

Beam ranged weapons fire at full effect from DL1 and experience a 10% dropoff per DL.

[hobknob]

Beam weapons are the normal weapon range for direct fire stuff. Point blank weapons receive a bonus at range 1 and fall off at 20% per DepLoc. The base range for "beam" range weapons is either 1 or 2 depending on who's theory you subscribe to.

 

The only weapons with ranges other than point blank or beam are missiles/torps. Within this class of weapons there are several ranges including Point blank, short, standard adn long/standoff. I believe that Pete clarified that long and standoff were the same. All the ANZ's should now indicate a weapons true range.

 

Engines are also a defense against fighters and drones, but we have no idea if these defenses also degrade the numbers of drones/fighters attacking or only reduce the incoming damage.

 

[Ur Lord Tedric]

They say that 'numbers don't lie' - but they can sure obfuscate the truth!

 

It would be great if the Oracle could just say 'yes' to the following, if true - but this is what the numbers have strongly implied from an analysis of the figures given in the ANZs compared to those seen in the Battle Reports.

 

For 'Normal' weapons (ie not missiles or torpedoes + F&Ds):

 

There are only two classes - Standard (often seen as Beam) & Point Blank.

 

All normal weapons are designed to fire from DL2 with the number now seen in the ANZ.

 

Standard (Beam) then get 10% bonus if in DL1 and -10% for each DL further back - with a minimum strength of 10%.

 

Point Blank get a 20% bonus in DL1 + an extra 12%, for a 32% bonus in DL1. They then get -20% for each DL lower than DL2, again with a minimum remaining of 10%.

 

The moral of this tale is - all the standard ship weapons are the 'same' in DL2. If you put armed screen ships in DL1 (in front of your battle line?), then their weapons will get a bonus - before they die. Give them Point Blank weapons and they might cause some serious damage before they die.

 

As an aside, you then use missiles from further back and fighters and drones launched from the rear (DL12) - although they work the same from any range; nothing stopping you putting Point Blank weapons on your carriers and putting them in DL1!

 

As for missiles/torpedoes - we're pretty sure the ranges were, before the 10% degradation kicks in, as follows:

 

Short = DL2

Medium (the 'standard one) = DL5

Long = DL8

Standoff = DL10

 

But, as hobnob mentioned, the last two may have been tweaked???

 

Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric

[WKE235]

So fighters will proceed to operate out of Deploc 1 regardless of where the carriers are.

 

There is no discrepency, this is the advantage of fighters and drones. The ships can remain at maximum range while the fighters and drones can close in.

 

A further question regarding fighters. If the defender has no point defense/CIDS and you launch 1 Fighter Bay worth of Fighters (100 units), for each round of combat, the fighters will suffer zero attrition, right? Or do they naturally lose a small percentage due to accidents, equipment failure, etc?

 

As I understand it, there is no attrition if there is no PD. In addition, PD also reduces the weapons effect from fighters on a specific ship so Fighteres and Drones will attack at full strength.

 

I believe that the range information has been published in the last year here on the forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

From experience I can confirm .. no anti-fighter/drone defenses = no attrition. But, be warned you can still lose fighters and drones at the end of the battle. If your carriers are damaged in the battle, the fighter bays/drone racks are damaged in equal proportions to the damage to the ship. For example, if your ship takes about 30% damage, you lose about 30% of your fighter bays/drone racks. What this means is when the drones / fighters come flying home to roost, you have no where to store them .. and in this case 30% are lost to space due to the lack of storage facilities.

[General Miles Avatar]

So fighters will proceed to operate out of Deploc 1 regardless of where the carriers are.

 

There is no discrepency, this is the advantage of fighters and drones. The ships can remain at maximum range while the fighters and drones can close in.

 

A further question regarding fighters. If the defender has no point defense/CIDS and you launch 1 Fighter Bay worth of Fighters (100 units), for each round of combat, the fighters will suffer zero attrition, right? Or do they naturally lose a small percentage due to accidents, equipment failure, etc?

 

As I understand it, there is no attrition if there is no PD. In addition, PD also reduces the weapons effect from fighters on a specific ship so Fighteres and Drones will attack at full strength.

 

I believe that the range information has been published in the last year here on the forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

From experience I can confirm .. no anti-fighter/drone defenses = no attrition. But, be warned you can still lose fighters and drones at the end of the battle. If your carriers are damaged in the battle, the fighter bays/drone racks are damaged in equal proportions to the damage to the ship. For example, if your ship takes about 30% damage, you lose about 30% of your fighter bays/drone racks. What this means is when the drones / fighters come flying home to roost, you have no where to store them .. and in this case 30% are lost to space due to the lack of storage facilities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just make sure you have excess capacity and you should do fine even if the carriers are damaged. Then again if the carriers do sustain major damage then they werent properly defended.