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[Locklyn]

You forget the big advantage of the Geo or Hydro PP: You don't have to remember to ship in the fuels for the PPs...Honestly, raise a claw, tentacle or slimy eyelid if you've had Powerplants shut down because you forgot to send the fuels, scrapped the ships and didn't build new ones, had the convoy ships blown out of space by a bored neighbourly pirate etc etc

 

/Locklyn

[TErnest]

Hydropower and Geothermal plants generate power even if there's not potential for these resources on the planet.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmmm....really? But at what rate? Is it the terrible 1000 listed in the Items and Installation Guide? With a good Hydro rating, mine are producing almost 12,000 Power, but I wouldnt have built them if they were only going to produce 1000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sha'Thar is correct but the trade off is that at a Hydro or Geo rating less than 200, Fission plants are better to build. You get more power for a given amount of Construction Materials.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes...but what if the planet has NO potential (IE, no yeild rating) for geothermal or Hydropower, as Sha'Thar said? Do they actually still produce any power? Low potentials can still be worked with (especially if you also have limited Radioactives), but no potential shouldnt produce anything, unless there is a lower limit (like 1000 as stated in the Item and Installation guide). They still wouldnt be efficient, but at least not useless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Even Coal Fired Power Plants generate more per Construction Material than a Hydro or Geo plant with no Hydro or Geo potential. If you don't have the resources, ship in the needed items (Processed Radioactives or Coal) on a convoy route. I really don't foresee a circumstance where using Hydro and Geo plants in places where there is no Hydro or Geo potential is the better alternative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ah, but never say, "Never!"

 

There is sometimes a period in the process of developing a colony, when the total population is between several hundred and a thousand, when a Hydro or Geo plant might be useful for at least a little while, even with a very low, or even nonexistent potential.

 

For it to be a reasonable choice, 1) there must be, as yet, insufficient Construction Materials present to build a Fission or Fusion plant, 2) population is the current limiting factor for colony developement, and 3) there is a high yield material of critical importance available to be mined. (I want all those those Coal Fire Power Plant workers, and Coal miners, mining more iron, dang it!)

 

I have come across this several times while developing mining colonies. The Hydro or Geo plant should be scrapped as soon as more Construction Materials are available, you suddently have a great excess of unemployed population, or the total population gets too far into the quadrupel digits.

 

 

TErnest

[ali-t-akua]

You forget the big advantage of the Geo or Hydro PP: You don't have to remember to ship in the fuels for the PPs...Honestly, raise a claw, tentacle or slimy eyelid if you've had Powerplants shut down because you forgot to send the fuels, scrapped the ships and didn't build new ones, had the convoy ships blown out of space by a bored neighbourly pirate etc etc

 

/Locklyn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You could build three stripmines and a 12 ICs and make the fuel if you needed to. In fact that would be a good idea on major colony worlds as a backup. This does make the breakeven point for Hydro and Geo a bit lower on those worlds but not low enough to justify building them for 1000 power IMO.

[Locklyn]

You forget the big advantage of the Geo or Hydro PP: You don't have to remember to ship in the fuels for the PPs...Honestly, raise a claw, tentacle or slimy eyelid if you've had Powerplants shut down because you forgot to send the fuels, scrapped the ships and didn't build new ones, had the convoy ships blown out of space by a bored neighbourly pirate etc etc

 

/Locklyn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You could build three stripmines and a 12 ICs and make the fuel if you needed to. In fact that would be a good idea on major colony worlds as a backup. This does make the breakeven point for Hydro and Geo a bit lower on those worlds but not low enough to justify building them for 1000 power IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ach, I've always had a rather large abundance of construction materials so I haven't worried so much about the math, I just do what seems simplest then and there

/Locklyn

[ali-t-akua]

Hydropower and Geothermal plants generate power even if there's not potential for these resources on the planet.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmmm....really? But at what rate? Is it the terrible 1000 listed in the Items and Installation Guide? With a good Hydro rating, mine are producing almost 12,000 Power, but I wouldnt have built them if they were only going to produce 1000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sha'Thar is correct but the trade off is that at a Hydro or Geo rating less than 200, Fission plants are better to build. You get more power for a given amount of Construction Materials.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes...but what if the planet has NO potential (IE, no yeild rating) for geothermal or Hydropower, as Sha'Thar said? Do they actually still produce any power? Low potentials can still be worked with (especially if you also have limited Radioactives), but no potential shouldnt produce anything, unless there is a lower limit (like 1000 as stated in the Item and Installation guide). They still wouldnt be efficient, but at least not useless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Even Coal Fired Power Plants generate more per Construction Material than a Hydro or Geo plant with no Hydro or Geo potential. If you don't have the resources, ship in the needed items (Processed Radioactives or Coal) on a convoy route. I really don't foresee a circumstance where using Hydro and Geo plants in places where there is no Hydro or Geo potential is the better alternative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Ah, but never say, "Never!"

 

There is sometimes a period in the process of developing a colony, when the total population is between several hundred and a thousand, when a Hydro or Geo plant might be useful for at least a little while, even with a very low, or even nonexistent potential.

 

For it to be a reasonable choice, 1) there must be, as yet, insufficient Construction Materials present to build a Fission or Fusion plant, 2) population is the current limiting factor for colony developement, and 3) there is a high yield material of critical importance available to be mined. (I want all those those Coal Fire Power Plant workers, and Coal miners, mining more iron, dang it!)

 

I have come across this several times while developing mining colonies. The Hydro or Geo plant should be scrapped as soon as more Construction Materials are available, you suddently have a great excess of unemployed population, or the total population gets too far into the quadrupel digits.

 

 

TErnest

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You're right. One should never say "Never". There is one circumstance I can think of where this might be a good strategy. If you are mining a high attrition world, building a Hydro or Geo plant makes a lot of sense since attrition of installations are prorated by the share of installations and since it only takes one plant to produce a 1000 power, it is better to build this then 100 Coal Plants. In fact I have a pretty hardy race so this is not going to happen very often unless I start mining Gas Giants. (Of course these usually have good Geo potential so I would build them anyway.)

 

Other than that I cant say that I have had the circumstance where I needed the resource so badly that I would do what you propose. My philosophy is to use my freighters to bring in enough CMs that it is only two or three turns before I can build the Fission (or Fusion) plant. I also stockpile Fuel for the power plants to avoid interruptions in supply. As I need those freighters for hauling all of the mining products away, this does not complicate my colony logistics.

[Locklyn]

The Gremloids have always had problems colonising even their homeworld so the less gremloids spent for installations other than mines, the better as there is always a need for surplus gremloids for the attrition

 

/Locklyn

[ali-t-akua]

The Gremloids have always had problems colonising even their homeworld so the less gremloids spent for installations other than mines, the better as there is always a need for surplus gremloids for the attrition

 

/Locklyn

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Yup. High attrition does make a difference in how you plan your colonies.

[CLEernest]

I'd say it would be worth it for a small colony. That way you can develop it without needing to ship coal to it. Once it gets big enough to support itself you can scrap them for a fission plant or something.

[ali-t-akua]

I'd say it would be worth it for a small colony. That way you can develop it without needing to ship coal to it. Once it gets big enough to support itself you can scrap them for a fission plant or something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It really comes down to your pop constraints. If you have trouble shipping in enough coal (3000 T per turn) to support a small colony you will have the same constraint with shipping CMs. If you are limited in Cargo capacity, I would think building SMs and ICs to support your power plants would be easier as long as you have the pop available. If you are constrained in pop due to Berthing limitations or high attrition then I agree this could be a better way to support a colony.

[Mourngrym]

Alright,

 

the new starraces really learn a lot here.

Go on with the power debate!

 

Mourngrym

[Octus Imperium]

Alright,

 

the new starraces really learn a lot here.

Go on with the power debate!

 

Mourngrym

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Even some of the older hands have learned something. I always assumed zero ment zero. Now, I have some far flung, small colonies that will be converting from coal to hydro very soon. The distance and whimpy engines make even CM hauling a cycle consuming task.

 

Octus

[hobknob]

It all depends on how you look at it. It takes 100 coal fired power plants to produce the power os a single hydro plant. Those same colonists could better serve the empire by manning iron mines. In addition, hydro and geo plants NEVER run out of fuel, unlike other power producing systems.

 

I find that coal fired power is somewhat limiting, but it does have it's uses. I also find that not having to worry about fuel for hydro and geo generally makes them a good buy. It's always nicer to have some sort of yield though.

 

[hobknob]

You forget the big advantage of the Geo or Hydro PP: You don't have to remember to ship in the fuels for the PPs...Honestly, raise a claw, tentacle or slimy eyelid if you've had Powerplants shut down because you forgot to send the fuels, scrapped the ships and didn't build new ones, had the convoy ships blown out of space by a bored neighbourly pirate etc etc

 

/Locklyn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You could build three stripmines and a 12 ICs and make the fuel if you needed to. In fact that would be a good idea on major colony worlds as a backup. This does make the breakeven point for Hydro and Geo a bit lower on those worlds but not low enough to justify building them for 1000 power IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, this works for a few colonies I suppose. I am pushing 60 at the moment and sorting out production requirements, building industries, modifying convoy routes to now leave the fuel behind etc.. etc... would cost a fortune in orders.

 

Besides. Once you startupgrading to improved industries you will find large stockpiles of surpluss CM's. I still have 13M of them sitting around and few unemployed needing jobs.

 

Antimatter power plants are another question all together as well as the desire to have DCS's on colonies. Until then sticking with the best fuelless power generation is the best choice...IMHO

 

[ali-t-akua]

You forget the big advantage of the Geo or Hydro PP: You don't have to remember to ship in the fuels for the PPs...Honestly, raise a claw, tentacle or slimy eyelid if you've had Powerplants shut down because you forgot to send the fuels, scrapped the ships and didn't build new ones, had the convoy ships blown out of space by a bored neighbourly pirate etc etc

 

/Locklyn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You could build three stripmines and a 12 ICs and make the fuel if you needed to. In fact that would be a good idea on major colony worlds as a backup. This does make the breakeven point for Hydro and Geo a bit lower on those worlds but not low enough to justify building them for 1000 power IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, this works for a few colonies I suppose. I am pushing 60 at the moment and sorting out production requirements, building industries, modifying convoy routes to now leave the fuel behind etc.. etc... would cost a fortune in orders.

 

Besides. Once you startupgrading to improved industries you will find large stockpiles of surpluss CM's. I still have 13M of them sitting around and few unemployed needing jobs.

 

Antimatter power plants are another question all together as well as the desire to have DCS's on colonies. Until then sticking with the best fuelless power generation is the best choice...IMHO

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I guess the reason we differ is that I find I am more constrained by cargo capacity at the moment and so finding the extra freighters to cart CMs to the colony world is a limitation more than colonists. .

 

Having said all of that, I have found this to be one of the best discussions in a while as it has got me reevaluating some of my colonies to see if this approach would make sense.

[hobknob]

Cargo spaces should only be a short term in my opinion. Just build more.

 

A decent convoy route should be able to move 400-500k in a turn. I have my routes OC when they get to the cargo so that any cargo will get dropped off. I can then set up XLC's to load the CM's over a couple of turns or longer to haul them to the colony.

 

If you don't mind modifying convoy routes you can just have the route pick up and move CM's every turn.

 

Another solution is to build your transports with enough cargo to employ each colonist transported. So if 100 colonists are being moved then you would need to have 50K cargo space +10% or so for overhead.