Moonshadow Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Well now that the Population transfer is not possible, <I am against this change>, does this now mean war is more likely? I certainly, will not waste 8 or more turns to get goods to or from anyones HW. Before the change my plans were to make nice with the closest person, and trade, if possible. Now, I am leaning toward war. Moonshadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President Guztov Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 That all depends Moonshadow. if your a patient person trade will do just fine if not then war but be forewarned.. waging war in Supernova 3 may be even more difficult indeed. if you decide on war make certain your enemy is not active or it may very well end in total disaster. There are still many technologies yet to be discovered that may lower your dependance on actually physically transporting items via cargo ships. This much has been hinted by the GM's i think you should give trade a chance. if not then go ahead and make War but make not the mistake of warring against any in the Ming or the GSL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshadow Posted September 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Patient, yes, but if it takes longer to get an item, in quantity needed from an Nearby empire then by researching it yourself, then what is the point of trade? I am hoping someone can suggest a better way. Otherwise, I need to redouble my efforts on defense. Moonshadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 "but if it takes longer to get an item, in quantity needed from an Nearby empire then by researching it yourself, then what is the point of trade? " Well that might be true for a simple first tier tech item, but certainly not true as we go along the ever branching tech trees. Do you honestly think you will be able to research every item that could benefit your empire? This restriction on pop transfer has not made it impossible to trade; it made an investment of time needed. So now you either set up the midpoint dropbox (which could be as close as 3 jumps) away to exchange items with your partner, or you set up some colony routes to his homesystem. The colonies should be of decent size once we get to a point where trading items is truely useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 'Moonshadow': "if it takes longer to get an item, in quantity needed from an Nearby empire then by researching it yourself, then what is the point of trade?" Trading with neighbors who have different tech trees will be far more expedient than attempting to diversify your own research trees to be self-sufficient. We are just scratching the surface on how long it takes to develop 3rd and 4th gen tech without SRPs...... Believe you me....its no easy feat to suddenly say "Gee I want those nifty Mk V JSS or [flavor of your choice] on top of my efforts to race for 3rd or 4th Gen Indy Science...and as far as the goods required to make all that stuff, I'll research that down the line too!" Trade was not killed by that loophole adjustment....not by a long shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 I like the decision about trade and POP transfers that RTG made. What I don't like is that I feel that trade is being foisted upon me. (Especially since I was one of the foolish early adopters of the game who spent most of his points on racial features.) Instead of being able to research what I want to know or need to know, I have to trade for it. That's all spiffy keen except - It assumes [1] my neighbors want to trade. [2] I can even find my neighbors. [3] what I need takes the form of ship components or resources. Someone made mention of the Core empires - I'm one of them, as in, been playing the game since the beginning. It's been a year and I still haven't found anyone (NPC or PC). Maybe everybody near me dropped their empires to build 1000-pt. races with 1000 saved points (split the difference) further out from the Core. Maybe everyone near me is a colonizer race that has no desire to leave their home systems. I'm hoping one day to find somebody, but when I do what will we trade? If I need Thermal Transfer Centers because Temperature issues are killing my colonists, can I get them? No, I cannot. You can't trade a Transfer Center. You can trade Improved Construction Materials, but since I don't know how to build a Thermal Transfer Center that does me no good. Can my Imperial Engineering Corps build someone else a Thermal Transfer Center? Nope, can't do that either. <sigh> You can pretty much rubber stamp that for all Installations. If I need 4th Generation Computer Systems instead of Mk. IV Computers, I can't get it or any other Horizon Technology. What I can do is build the interstellar equivalent of the Ford Escort - pick up the parts abroad, assemble them at home. If the big goal for this trade set-up is to limit or reduce warfare then why are the majority of items that we can trade weapons and counter-weapon systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 What does war buy you? If you take player X's colonies, you can't build the wonderful devices you wanted to trade for. You do not learn techs by invading. Also, I suspect wars will be more costly than imagined. You're from a Hot world invading someone from a cold world? Attrition applies to your troops and hampers your combat abilities. Plus, anyone who even thinks they are going to lose could dismantle most installations, and convert most POP into Colonists then Troopers and then Soldiers. Take the homeworld = battle 50,000 Imperial Soldiers (ouch). Toss in some MDD's on the defenders side and all you get if you win is a burned out cinder. Now, does the rule limit your trade ability? NO. You can build your own colony on a world close to (in the same home system) to your trade ally. You just have to get the POP there. Sure it takes a little time to get the POP there. But once you have the colony set-up, your trade ally can still Offload to you the materials you need for building items! They can drop down improved electronics or other stuff, and you need only have the industry to do the final processing. The POP need for such a colony is a lot less than you may think. Yes it takes more time to build it up. But assuming we discover the magic speed things Pete talked about, even that time will not be to bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Shadow/WKE It goes back to that whole discussion about how we cant do it all, eh? I really like how trade has opened up...it has been "hoisted" upon us a bit more. WKE's point has always been a solid one: killing a neighbor eliminates a trading partner. Two, three and four empires can work wonders with trades (except with installations as you point out, ShadowK) Doesnt this seem very realistic and pretty friggin COOL? My only laments now are: 1) Tech might be too slowwwwww (imagine running out of SRPs and trying to develop 4th and 5th Gen tech, hahaha....happy new year 2008! I get my Mk I Antimatter Drive! (or whatever) ) 2) We are too far spread out to actually enjoy the nice diversity inherent in the game....Pete and Russ have provided us a great stage for trading, alliances and warfare but no actors! This will be the breaking point for me if I ever break. If another three-six months go by without contact, I'll have to seriously consider dropping. I'm psyched about the design with these changes! But I hate playing games by myself. I see why the tech needs to be slow to open up diversity...but in order to find each faster we need better base tech (stuff we cant trade)....base tech without SRPs takes FOREVER.....thus....YOU LUCKY BASTARDS WHO FOUND SOMEONE ARE AKIN TO LOTTO WINNERS (and would be foolish to choose war over trade if you ask me) Would YOU roll a race without a big ol stash of SRPs just to race toward the drives that supposedly help us revolutionize the snails pace of finding each other? Thats my take on the whole trade/tech thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Aleen Empire Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Sometimes I feel like I am really playing "Lost In Space", but heck the Jupitor II was cooler than our starting ships... Well all I can say is we got what we choose for ourselves and need to just trust in the GMs and have some faith that we do not see or have the total big picture and scope of the game and all it's hidden parts and elements. Someday my Core empire will finds someone out there and when that happens I will try to trade with that player and work together in some type of teamwork and etc. We can compare pointy sticks and rocks, and maybe trade some cool stuff too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 My only gripe here is that I wish there had been some more explicit advice about race setups! I made the assumption that 100 SRPs might buy you 1 tech, not 10, and 'invested' in my race - precious little result so far, but then perhaps I should have done 10 setups until my starting system was nicer! My comment on some of the above, however, is a prediction. I guarantee that in one year's time there will be a bunch of people who are saying "boy, am I glad there's 6/7/8/10 systems between me and the other guy..." Lord High Seneschal to Ur-Lord Tedric (Who's also predicting a whole lot of drop and restarts in the next 6 months!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I like the pop trading descision that RTG made. I don't think it will impact tade at all. Anybody who is serious about trading partners will construct and build colonies to be able to trade with friendly neighbors. Since these colonies will be substantial it will help to reinforce alliances and friendly agreements. It will not be that difficult, but it will require a serious investment in time and materials which it should since the payback is quite high. As far as being more on a war footing goes - you either are or you aren't. I don't see a real down side either way. You have to play the way that gives you the most bang for your buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I'm sure that Warfare will be expensive. Right now there is no reason to go to war except for the "Thrill of the Kill". Heck, I can't even try to steal someone's Tech (or Tech Points) using my, at the moment, useless Agents. I do have a question: If someone reduces their opponents to rubble and I, a third party, EXPL the ruined Pop Group could I find some stuff in the rubble? I have to second Ur Lord Tedric's commentary concerning racial set-ups, I feel somewhat misled. We'll see what happens in six months, I guess. <shrug> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanon Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 What's make you think that is would take 6-8 turns to trade... There could be better ships.. Or what about the Mk I Cargo Gate or Mk I Universal Gate, presto chango and the goods are there! Patience is a virtue. Long Live Emanon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Who knows what the future holds? I mean if the Galaxy can fit on Orion's belt.... (I certainly hope someone gets that! ) Personally, I'm hoping to find one of those Portals that Kirk and Picard found. I just don't plan to blow it up. Sabeli, on your doorstep. Talk about a Beer delivery service! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balagor Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Recently intercepted communication : Mr. K. We do not discuss those topics here. Zedd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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