EternusIV Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Happy Anniversary SNROTE! I'm curious as to how the rest of you feel about tech pace and player spacing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 When I sift through my thoughts, I come to the conclusion that my only beef with the pace is the two week turns. But since that is not likely to change, I would leave the tech and spacing as it is and practice my patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 I'm a core empire who has been in the game from the start. I've explored over 30 systems and have warp point and gas giant sensor fleets at 80% of these. I have NOT found ANY player anywhere and am bored out of my skull. Since EXPL was decapitated my turns got a whole lot more boring since I actually designed a race after Petes early advice on only saving small amounts of SRP so tech is ssssllllloooooowwww. I have been starting to feel like I'm really playing "Spreadsheets in Space" all by my lonesome which really isn't the intent with a PBM, then I could have bought a ton of computer games for the money I've invested so far. Something has to happen to pick up the pace in this game or people will start dropping en masse. /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Aleen Empire Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Well I too have bin in the game from the very beginning and like others in the core am still ALONE. I can deal with that, BUT I would like to see tech research sped up a bit. Especially for those governmant types that are based around Technology and even choose Imperial Tradition of Science. I would think a Technocratic (input any) with a Science tradition SHOULD get a slightly better bonus in research, not just more Science Characters. Plus I would like the former tech bonus put BACk to what it was for the results for EXPL and increase the ever so NEXT to never happening Scientist character breakthrough bonus (in 24 turns and always having my highest Scientist on my HW plus some others have only seen ONE bonus yet)! These are a number of things I would like to see changed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octagon999 Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 I really think the "pace" of the game is strongly tied to the 2-week turnaround. Its not the amount of turns that it takes to get something, its the amount of "real" time that passes. I mean, in MOO, do you really notice exactly how many turns a specific tech takes? No, you just keep hitting Enter until something happens. Almost every time I hear a complaint about how long a specific tech takes, its in reference to Real Time, not game turns or game time. Its one reason I have been in favor of a one-week, email only turnaround system for the game. Without changing a single thing, the time span to both find other players and new tech is cut in half (on an emotional level). I know that a one-week turnaround might be brutal to some players with a multitude of empires, and cost wise, I could not keep up my current pace if I had to double my turn costs, but I do believe it is at the core of the current situation. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 (edited) I don't know about player spacing since I haven't found anybody yet. Of course I also have a few warp points that are close that I haven't been able to survey yet so there may actually be somebody there. So far at the 6-8 range nothing found. It is hard to say about tech pace since I have no idea of how long things will take in the future. On the whole I think that tech refinement vs a new tech should be implemented. Just based on what I khow so far I have my next 4 years worth of tech mapped out and that doesn't count anything nifty that turns up from getting to that point. While tech looks like it is being held in check to not overbalance the game I feel somewhat dissappointed that I spent 2000 points on a high RB lifeform just to have it give very little in the return department. I am not looking forward to the time when every item being researched is a 30+ turn item as it means a year without any advances at all. As to the suggestion that turns be weekly, not for me thanks. A weeklyu turn around would have to be some free internet game that I don't invest much into since a brief absense could spell ruin. My biggest concern with the tech pace is the fact that a dumb lifeform that saved up lots of points will maintain a tech advantage into the forseeable future and with that tech advantage they will also have an economic advantage that may NEVER be surpassable by the position without lots of saved setup points. JMHO Edited September 5, 2003 by hobknob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokmok Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 How much in % does the Max Research-bonus appear to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Here is an example. For Mk II computers a max research bonus (RB) lifeform got it in 10 turns at 1RC/turn and a 0 RB lifeform got it in 12. So for this particular item the liform that spent 2000 points to get max RB has a 2 turn advantage over a lifeform that spent 0 points on RB. Other factors will apply of course and things may change with scientist etc.., but there you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 One problem -- Some of the players with max bonuses are getting Mk II Computer Systems are getting them in 8 turns at 1 RC per turn instead of the 10 you mention. There seems to be a clear dividing line. Players who started research very early in the game took 10 turns to complete the item. Players who started later took 8 turns. The feeling is RTG adjusted something in the game somewhere between turns 8 and 12, or corrected a bug, something ... to cause a change. That seems to be the dividing line between when objects used to cost 10 turns at 1 RC and now cost 8 turns at 1 RC for max research bonus races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 That is certainly true, however the numbers still speak for themselves as an adjustment to research would not necessarily be applied only to lifeforms with max RB. In any event there should soon be enough data since turn 10 or so to put together some more current numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokmok Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Isn´t there more data available to give a more accurate percentage? I mean there is a big difference between 12/10 and 12/8. the first give a 20% RB and the second gives a 50% RB If you somehow can equate set-up abillities with Scientific advancements then the payoff time for RB is very long for a RB of only 20% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Yes there is more data, but most of my data reflects the 20% bump. It will take a few more turns for new data to come in, in order to have intelligent data after turn 10 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I completely agree with the statement that it is gains vs. REAL time, that causes me angst. I have friends who wonder why I play games like SN:ROTE when I could be spending the same money on some MMORPG and still get the people interaction plus a more immediate gratification (Thag smash! Thag loot. Thag happy. :lol: ). While I'll probably never join an MMORPG, I do agree that they have a point about speed of gratification. I used to be psyked to get my turns and see what new things I might have found via EXPL or what new things my scientists could research having just discovered something else. Now, I really don't get that excited about when I get my turns (Friday, Saturday, Sunday, whenever) since all I really do is check to see if I screwed up any orders or something wonky happened (i.e. Fuel SKIM issue this last turn). [My Kingdom for a SAGA-like program for SN:ROTE! ] I've scaled back my EXPL Orders because it doesn't pay to have a lot, so I get a 'hit' every other turn or so. As far as R&D and saved points goes, I don't even want to talk about it anymore. I figure that I'll start to see the 'advantages' of spending those points instead of saving them in about six years, should my empire survive that long. Regarding the R&D numbers, I'm not sure if they can be tracked accurately since we had a few turns where scientists could have been making breakthroughs that we didn't know about. For now, I'm just kicking back, issuing 40 Orders and plodding on through, as Locklyn put it, "Spreadsheets in Space". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted September 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 Nice points about the "real time" gratification thing for sure. Thats why I voted for faster stuff. We all have a breaking point, but I sense the enthusiastic old-timers sound a bit run down. I never did care when turns arrived....and doubt I will, until I find a player. The game DOES require quite a bit of spreadsheet magic. However, I'm at the point where I tool stuff and completely shudder at the thought of reworking my spreadsheets with latest tech advances and incorporating new goods. I dont have the time for it :lol: I play MMPORGs too. I love some of em better than others. What SNROTE provides that a MMPORG fails to provide, is the control over an entire empire....the feeling that you are building a fledgling dynasty amongst the stars. What the MMPORGS currently provide that SNROTE S O R E L Y lacks, is interaction with other people inside of the game. From one lonely vet, to another......SAVOL! May we find each other soon! The Galactic Directory is great, BTW A year from now, I will never be wishing there was more space between me and my neighbors. I'm at the point where I'd rather watch someone come in and kick my arse than stare at empty warp nexuses. Besides, if I got wiped out, I'd have some incentive to "reroll" and come back at 'em. Overall - I'm still a fan of RTG and this game. I'm having fun. Those first few turns were a blast because there was so much conversation and speculation about what this game would become. Well - after a year - we pretty much know that its a slower version of what *most* of us expected (spacing or tech, take your pick) Regardless, I hope that we can all continue to interact and keep each other interested until things heat up. I'd hate to see anyone leave our of sheer boredom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 Boredom - No, I still love the game! But, frustration, that's another story! I have no real problem with the pace of the game, the spacing of empires or the lack of intereaction - yet... However, there remains so much that we should/could know that we don't. All those old-timers (and I'm a junior in that category having begun on turn 3) are collecting information that will be fairly free to newcomers. I'm not talking about any 'secrets', but some pretty basic game stuff. Why shouldn't we know it now??? Surely a years long enough to plug some of the gaps and issue some better guidance? In actually thinking of starting another race (starting again?) I was reading the lifeform stuff. Where are the "suggested/standard races" that are mentioned at the beginning of Chapter 11? My, that might have given us some useful information...... Slight Miffed Chief Grumpy Person to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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