MadMartinB Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 I've just overwhelmed the outer defenses on an empire... lost the pathfinder explorer to the Bastion (wasn't even funny.....). What do we think we need to fight a Bastion? 9x defenses...1500 10mm autocannons...Arghhh and I can't get into that orbit because of it so he keeps building ships... Hmmmm...Maybe trade makes more sense. His damaged hulls for my topedos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Who are you fighting? Is this his HW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted September 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 yes it is a HM or he took the Bastion elsewhere? I can't do an Orb since the pathfinder just died.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanon Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 You are such a Bad Boy :lol: Attacking a poor players homeworld Lets pull up a chair and enjoy. Long Live Emanon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted September 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Well it will take some time....Arghhhh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 When I read the combat supplement, my first reaction was discomfort with the durability of surface fortresses. It struck me that a 9x integrity bonus makes homeworld invasions almost impossible without tremendous cordination of numerous attacking empires. If a defender goes turtle and keeps pumping out forts... Quite frankly I think 9x is too generous. I would have guessed a 1x (ship), 2x (orbital), 3x (surface fort) progression. Even with that 33% reduction, a single defender could hold out against 3 attackers with production/tech equality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 When I read the combat supplement, my first reaction was discomfort with the durability of surface fortresses. It struck me that a 9x integrity bonus makes homeworld invasions almost impossible without tremendous cordination of numerous attacking empires. If a defender goes turtle and keeps pumping out forts... Quite frankly I think 9x is too generous. I would have guessed a 1x (ship), 2x (orbital), 3x (surface fort) progression. Even with that 33% reduction, a single defender could hold out against 3 attackers with production/tech equality. He could crank out forts, but the 9x structural integrity modifier enjoyed by surface forts is just "hit points". They don't dish out 9x as much. The attacker just needs to pound away and the fort will eventually die--his weapons keep firing round after round. The attacker would definitely have needed to come in with a larger attack force than that of the defender, or risk the "turtle" strategy. The downside to this idea is that the defender is stuck with nonmobile fortresses. If he has colonies, he won't be able to defend them by running a warfleet out and back. He'll have a hard time doing anything but protecting his homeworld. Building nothing but surface fortresses on all of your worlds could be effective, but if the attacker comes in with a force just tough enough to take your defenses out...you're cooked. With no mobile forces at your disposal, striking back would not be an option and the hated aliens would probably win out in the long run. The defender could build surface forts that would have been otherwise identical to starships. He would gain a serious edge in structural integrity, but sacrifices mobility--a nontrivial choice that would depend heavily on his other strategic plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuth Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Ahhhh...lucky you. Here I am still looking for someone. Oh well....might as well find me and asteroid field and target practice. -- -- -- O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Now is the perfect time to test your MDDs if you can manage it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted September 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Fighting the Bastion.... A Bastion is 300k Standard Plate, 24,900 Reflective Armor and 25 Type A Defense Screens. A Bastion is designed to absorb damage (hull plate), Stop coherent beam weapons and stop disruptors. The one disadvantage of a Bastion is the lack of good command and control. (1 MK I Computer). I see several ways to take one out. (thinking out of the box here). 1. Mass Huge firepower and slug it out 2. Have some serious armored ships that can absorb projectile weapons with a layered approach. Ships MK I Torps (Long Range), Thunderbolt generators, Fighter Bays etc... behind to continue inflicting damage. Now we all start with 300,000 standard plate. If we figure Titanium is 2-3x more efficient this equates to 125k Titanium Armor with a 9x multiplier. 1M to 1.5M Titanium is 3-5M Steel. Saved SRPs could get Selenite Battle Weave and Maybe the next one which would then make The Armor equivalent to the GRound Value (Selenite being say 6x and next Gen 9x). I could then make 300k Gen 4 armor for 1.5M Improved Steel. The concern with a layered defense is the distance to the enemy. 6 warp jumps is 6 turns or I could deploy Nuclear Transwarp Drives and make it in 1-3 turns (depending on AP of the ship). NTWDs are extremely expensive (take 75% of my economy to make 1) so I can't equip a Raptor (50 MK I Long Range Torpedos) with one. With this Armor strategy I could Build components in 4 turns, Ship in 5 and be there in 8. Ship would be: 80 Fighter Bays with Attack Fighters, 450k 4th Gen Armor (1 past Selenite), 400 MK I Force Shields, 400 MK I Deflectors, 100 Heavy GRapple, 200 10cm Gauss Guns, 100 MK I Thunderbolt Generator + 3-400 MK I LR TOrpedos and 300 Sonic Disruptors. I think Armor, Force Shields and Deflectors will all work against the Bastion (deflectors v. projectile, Force Shield as the Pillow and Armor as hit points...) Thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Go around it? :lol: Nah - seriously - dont forget to bring the troops and the once you DO beat it up. The Bastion has decent (not amazing) point defense and decent absorbtion....try a different type of weapon that might counter it a bit better Or launch a ton of Bombardment Drones on em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 "Thoughts... " If the empire is active, all he has to do is put an equivalent amount of gear in a second bastion. So either hope he has or will drop, or find someone to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Why not just attack with Fighters from Long Range? They will attack with 100%, whilst your ships will take less damage at that range (remember the Bastion is at deployment line 7 until Column Attack is changed) and the Bastion is attacking with a reduced value. Also the Bastion has no Point Defence at all, so your fighters are safe. I'll be interested in the result, but I doubt it will be very difficult really. (On the assumption that I understand any of this combat stuff yet ) Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Tedric, You understand some of this stuff? I'm just going to leave it up to my naval commanders. What, what do you mean I don't have any? Go recruit some now, before the CaoCao pizza delivery guy gets here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Ok actually having READ the Naval Combat primer (draft) I have a few ideas: The Bastion has armor coating, one defensive system, some plate and a bunch of guns. A weapon has to go through the following layers to destroy the Bastion (in order of descent): =================== Reflective Armor Coating =================== Type A Defense Screen =================== (No Shields! YAY!) =================== Standard Hull Plate + Structural integrity factor of your weapons(?) =================== KABOOOOM! Reflective Coating counters "coherent beam weapons" Type A Defense Screen counters "sonic weapons" The Standard Hull Plate are the "Hit points" of the Bastion (at 900% bonus!) Thus - your greatest change in blasting through all that plate would be using ANY of the following: Plasma Torpedoes Projectile Weapons Gravitonics Energy Discharge Energy Disruptors Plasma Splash Particle Beams Matter Disruptors Missiles Fighters Drones Fusion Blasts Frost Bolts For the Bastion do not carry defenses to these types of weaponry. As for dealing with those guns down below -- your idea of Deflectors, Force Shields and tons of armor is dead on. I'm certain you will find the right obnoxious amount of Deflectors/Force Shields it will take to completely neutralize the smattering of projectile shells from the mighty Bastion. You could do it in one turn with the right equipment. I'm happy to see that Bastion v. Pathfinder turned out the way it did But Nonetheless, please accept this humble offering of some of our citizens in the form of a boquet for the grieving family of the pathfinder pilot: you won't have to water them at all and if you want more of them, simply choose NOT to incinerate them and you will have more sunflowers than you could possibly fathom..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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