City Defenses and Bombardment

[richardjohns]

I was wondering if a section of their turn of an old game of a city and coast being bombarded so I can understand the dynamics in the game. The last time I did it was in game 9 and I really don't really recall.

 

My email is richardjohnsii@yahoo.com

[richardjohns]

Russ,

 

I have scanned the Victory boards and have found very little information and NO HELP FROM OLDER PLAYERS. ​​So I would like some comprehensive help on Coastal Bombardment and game mechanics somewhere on the boards. The rest of the players have formed their PERMANENT GROUPS and do not help others anymore. They whine and do nothing to help newer players. Also, something needs to do something with ending the TA all together for large groups I would think two people at most. The old groups are now too powerful and do not allow the possibility of victory. There battle cry is "this is WAR, five against one and we like it that way. All I hear is bashing on the boards instead of actual help anymore.

[Predator]

It is what the game has evolved into. They recently did a no TA game and yet they still worked in groups. I recently left victory for a break after 20+ years as I was tired of the whining and bashing of tactics by other players..I don't have any old turns so can't help you there but your welcome to email me I'll try to answer any questions u have

Predatorjohn.beierle@gmail.com

[Reece]

Richard,

 

What you are asking for can't be provided any better than the rules copied below. Every battle result is going to depend on factors that are not the same (Level of defending CHAB/CLAB), target and attacking force). From the below list you can eliminate the population option as that is no longer a target. I have never done sub pens either. For the remainder it depends on your goal for the bombardment. If you know there is an airbase present you can destroy planes on the ground, if you want to destroy industry then you target it and so on. You will have to get to the port with out being destroyed by NMI/AMI missions, fight it out with any coastal batteries and afterward the bombardment will occur. I put a same one at the bottom but even with the same forces on all sides a second attack will produce different results as there are random variables. For instance if my CHAB all get hits on round 1 with a enemy force its firepower and ability to get by the defenses will be impacted for the other rounds. The accumulated damage would reduce firepower available for the bombardment as well. Rail can only be attacked in a city and fixed defenses can only be targeted in a province.

 

 

 

5.6 Coastal Bombardment Mission Notes

Coastal Bombardment Missions are very similar to strategic

bombing air missions. The purpose is to shell coastal provinces or port

cities in an attempt to inflict strategic damage to a variety of installations

and targets. Once a Coastal Bombardment commences (ie, when minefields,

enemy naval and air maritime interdicts and enemy coastal batteries have

been dealt with) it is a simple matter of calculating the Force Coastal

Bombardment Rating and applying damage to the selected targets. The

larger the Force Coastal Bombardment Rating, the better. The force

conducting the coastal bombardment will attempt to shell the target for 10

combat rounds (approximately 20 minutes). If you do not have sufficient

munitions available for 10 combat rounds, shelling will stop when available

munitions have been exhausted. Coastal Bombardments can be directed

against several specific target types at the target location. Your choice

here will depend on your overall strategy. Shelling damage will be allocated

based on the target type selected. As with Strategic Bombing, Coastal

Bombardments could be somewhat inaccurate and collateral damage was not

uncommon. Damage allocation for the various target types is as follows:

(Note: The percentages indicate what percentage of the shells will fall on a

given type of target)

General Targets

40% Industrial Complexes, 25% Supply Stockpiles, 20% Population,

10% Special Rail Capacity, 5% Fixed Defenses.

Industrial Targets

65% Industrial Complexes, 10% Supply Stockpiles, 10% Population,

10% Special Rail Capacity, 5% Fixed Defenses.

Air Base

80% Air Base, 10% Supply Stockpiles, 5% Special Rail Capacity,

5% Fixed Defenses.

Naval Base

80% Naval Base, 10% Supply Stockpiles, 5% Special Rail Capacity,

5% Fixed Defenses.

Sub Pens

50% Sub Pens, 30% Naval Base, 10% Supply Stockpiles, 5% Special Rail

Capacity, 5% Fixed Defenses.

Railyards

70% Special Rail Capacity, 20% Supply Stockpiles, 5% Population,

5% Fixed Defenses.

Provincial Fortifications

(Note: City Fortifications cannot be targeted directly.)

80% Fortifications, 20% Provincial Fixed Defenses.

Population

15% Industrial Complexes, 15% Supply Stockpiles, 60% Pop, 5% Special

Rail Capacity, 5% Fixed Def.

ATTACKER STARTING FORCES

Task Force 8

Ship Name Experience % Effective Ship Name Experience % Effective

Koln, CL-1 Line 100% Koln, CL-3 Green 94%

Koln, CL-4 Green 71% Koln, CL-5 Line 100%

Koln, CL-6 Green 100% Koln, CL-8 Green 100%

Koln, CL-10 Green 100% Koln, CL-16 Green 71%

Koln, CL-17 Green 100% Koln, CL-18 Green 100%

Koln, CL-19 Green 100% Koln, CL-20 Green 100%

DEFENDER STARTING FORCES

Division Name Experience Firepower Division Name Experience Firepower

Light Coastal Bns. Line 0 Heavy Coastal Bns. Line 95

ATTACKER ENDING FORCES

Task Force 8

Ship Name Experience % Effective Ship Name Experience % Effective

Koln, CL-1 Line 55% Koln, CL-3 Green 94%

Koln, CL-4 Green 71% Koln, CL-5 Line 10%

Koln, CL-6 Green 100% Koln, CL-8 Green 100%

Koln, CL-10 Green 100% Koln, CL-16 Green 26%

Koln, CL-17 Green 100% Koln, CL-18 Green 100%

Koln, CL-19 Green 55% Koln, CL-20 Green 100%

DEFENDER ENDING FORCES

Division Name Experience Firepower Division Name Experience Firepower

Light Coastal Bns. Line 0 Heavy Coastal Bns. Line 40

The batteries were silenced

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Task Force 8 inflicted the following damage :

4 Aircraft Factories 1 Armament Factories 1 General Factories 1 Oil Refineries

274 points of special rail capacity

5 Security Factors 44 Local Defense Factors 25 Light AA Factors 12 Heavy AA Factors

1 Heavy Coastal Factors

89 units of Fuel 93 units of Munitions 18 units of General Supplies

Also I have never had a problem getting help from other players but I usually give more than a couple of hours for a response. Have fun

[The Fremen]

Something I don't get. The rules state that all CB missions start at 24000 yards

This happens to be the maximum range of the heaviest CHAB. What's to keep a few

Battleships or cruisers with guns with much greater ranges from just taking up station outside the

Maximum range of the CHAB's and blasting them at their leisure?

[LordPatton]

My understanding is that the game program wont let a CB happen at a longer range for the very reason you state.

[The Fremen]

Ok what if I set my engage range at 25000 yards? And just look at the CHAB's and yell Nah Nah Nah Boo Boo!!! You can hit me!!!

[The Fremen]

In addition the rules state that all CB missions start at 24000 yards. Does that mean they will end at that range? Why not extend the maximum range of those 15" naval guns to the range of a 15" naval gun not the range of 5" pop gun.

[Reece]

As you said the rules state that the battle begins at 24000. If you have closing orders then the range will drop each round as you close the city. If not they stay at 24000 yards. Your effectiveness at the long range is not as great at short range. 24000 yards is a good starting point. Thats 12NM or nearly 14 statue miles. At that range the fire directors would not be too effective. Too see the beach you would have to be 130 feet or so above the water due to the earth's curvature. Have fun, Rick

[The Fremen]

That would be true IF your target was moving but in a Coastal Bombardment you don't even need fire directors. Your target is X number of miles away and not moving. Just a matter of manuvering to a point where Coastal guns can't possibly hit you and just letting ballistics take care of the rest. The city doesn't move too well either. It would also be a 'sitting duck'. I was also under the impression that the initial battle with the CHAB/CLAB's was conducted as a naval surface action. Why would the attacking ships disregard open fire range instructions and not move to their designated ranges after the starting range of 24000? Does it make sense to stay in range of CHAB when your own guns have a range much much greater then that? All of this would be a moot point if the 15" naval guns of the CHAB actually had the range of 15" naval guns.

 

With that said. The German Battleship Bismarck sank the HMS Hood at a range of 13 miles! (26000 yards) Both were moving targets. The horizon is about 12 miles to an observer on the Bismarck looking out from its crows nest and yet they sank the Hood who would not have been visible to the crew standing on the deck or even the bridge for that matter. I think they ( The German fire control) was damn effective even beyond the horizon. Imagine them taking shots at some pesky CHAB who aren't maneuvering?

[Reece]

The Hood would be visible to personnel on the Deck of the Bismark just not the waterline. So for two BB's exchanging fire at 13 miles they can still spot the rounds. They could shell the city at a distance as you said but the fire would be ineffective and cause little damage. Imagine throwing darts at a dartboard with a blindfold. You will get some lucky shots but you would seldom hit the target your wanted. Now if they had a spotting aircraft they could fire from their max range and still spot effectively but spotting shells in a city is a lot harder than a ship at sea due to all the clutter. There are always exceptions but if this really bothers you your going to hate victory as there are far more effects that do not come close to historical capabilities such as a division completely destroyed by some bombers.

[The Fremen]

Actually no. Unless the deck was 100 feet above sea level. And wrong again the shell fire would not be ineffective if you knew where the city was. If you had to guess where it was then yes. Naval gunfire is basically the same as long range artillery. If you know where the target is and how far away you were then just elevate your guns to the proper angle fire and let's physics do the rest.

 

And wrong on your 3rd count. I think I will enjoy Victory very much. Win or lose

[Reece]

Well you obviously know better. The avatar on my signature isn't a public internet picture but from my own service. That's the New Jersey in the photo (height of eye applies to both the target and the observer so yes they could see the Hood on the Deck of the Bismark). Physics was also my undergrad major. Targeting a city in general isn't the same as aiming for a specific target like a shipyard or air base. There are a lot more variables than range direction and gun elevation. If it was that simple a few rounds could destroy most targets but in reality 100's of rounds were expended on a land target and most did not hit the intended target. The later calls for adjustments to fire to be made which requires observation of the shell impacts which is why they prefer firing at closer range unless spotter information comes from a outside source. Victory is a operation level game not a tactical level game so you will always find inconsistencies with reality. But since you have all the answers I will let you go back to screaming that no one wants to help you as I now know why. Perhaps I will get the chance to visit one of your cities in the game. Have fun, RIck

[The Fremen]

You obviously have me confused with someone else. Perhaps you are talking about the player who claimed no one would help? That would not be me I'm afraid. The avatar looks like a photo taken through the periscope of a fast attack boat. If so you and I are kindred spirits:) I too served in my nations Navy. USS Philadelphia USS Gato USS John Marshall and USS Dallas.

 

As far as a CB goes let's take a took and zero in on a Russian Cruiser Kirov it has 9 main guns which each fire 10 shells per round

That's 90 shells times 10 rounds assuming enough munitions. 900 rounds from just one ship is quite a bit of destruction. As for visiting my port cities. All are welcome!! Some more then others and you sir fall into that category:)

 

Also try to not take things so personal Rick. It's just a game after all right? Best of luck to you and your allies.

[richardjohns]

Don't get me started I was in the Navy as well. As I remember most officers got lost in the engine room.