Class G Warp Point

[woolfe99]

I have successfully surveyed a type G warp point with the following;

 

Ranger level explorer

Senior Scientist

and 16 Mk II JSS's

 

I got it on the first try with these characters so I don't know how much overkill on the ships there was. I calculated a Type G at about 200 strength(nice round number).

 

When you say you got it "on the first try" that makes me wonder if there is any randomness in the determination. The best design would be to have no random element. Either you have enough of whatever you need or you don't. Randomization would allow abuse by having a fleet that is generally inadequate to the task repeating the order until it succeeds. If it's designed correctly, not "getting it on the first try" should mean you simply can't get it until you add more of whatever you need to your fleet.

 

Has anyone ever failed with an initial attempt then gotten it with the same fleet on successive attempts?

[MadMartinB]

200...wow.

[Damiano]

I was lucky to do a type G with one Mk III JSS 4 MK II's a 4 Mk I's, an explorer and 4 science installations. Lucky as well that i didn't send the same fleet through after the SURV as it was a one way into a solar flare zone

 

Damian

[hobknob]

There is no randomness involved with warp point surveys (except for the WP's themselves). You either have enough of what it takes or you don't. My point was that I only tried it once and it worked. Next time I will likely try with a smaller force and see what happens.

[Ur Lord Tedric]

"That's not entirely accurate" - as they say.

 

4 x Mk II JSS will do a D normally, but there was a very tricky one that was so tight (perhaps it went a long way?), that it didn't work. It took a character to help.

 

Pete said this sometimes happens, so there is the odd extra difficulty......

 

Chief Cartographer to Ur-Lord Tedric

[PhaseDragon]

For the purpose of surveys are all ships around the warp point counted in the calculations or just the ones in the fleet doing the survey. For example, if I had 4 ships with MK II JSS and each ship was in a different fleet then when I do a survey with one of the fleets am I using 1 MK II JSS or 4 MK II JSS? If it is 1 Mk II JSS then I guess you have to combine the fleets first before doing the survey and that would explain why I had no success.

 

I know that the 11 science buildings provide a nice boost but if you have no planets to land on this bonus is unavailable.

 

And of course, characters are nice too.

[DWillard]

Some of these questions have come up on the board before so here's what I remember the conclusions being:

 

1. Each individual warp point has a fixed difficulty. This does not mean that all class C warp points have a difficulty of 35. Some may be a little more, some a little less. However, that number is fixed for that warp point. As fleets do SURV missions, there is no randomness to the numbers that they generate. So if a fleet happens to be 1 point short of what is needed for success, it could SURV that same warp point for 1000 turns in a row and never succeed -- as long as more sensors, characters, promotions, installations, etc., aren't added to the mix. This is what is meant by no randomness.

 

2. Characters and installations that are higher than those listed in the Warp Point Survey Supplement do have higher bonuses.

 

3. Only the ships in the fleet that issued the SURV order are counted.

 

4. As Pete mentioned in this thread, the Explorer and Scientist %s are not added together and then applied to the warp point class. In another thread either on this board or the old one, I seem to remember that it was brought up that the way to do it is to first apply the Explorer bonus, then apply the Scientist bonus to this new number.

 

So, a Voyager (30%) and a Technologist (15%) would NOT reduce a 35 pt class C to 19.25 pts (which a Mk I sensor would then succeed) but rather would reduce it to 20.8 (which a Mk I sensor might not get depending on how the rounding works).

 

If this is correct, then in Eldred's example, his level 5 Exp (50%) would reduce the 180 pt warp point to 90 pts. The level 4 Sci (20%) would then reduce the remaining 90 pts to 72. The one Mk II sensor would reduce this to 22, which was more than the 4 additonal Mk II sensors could handle.

 

With Hobknob's example, assuming a Ranger = 60% and a Senior Scientist = 25%, then the 15 additional Mk II sensors were able to overcome 10 pts if a class G = 200 pts, or they only had to make up an extra 4 pts if a class G = 180 pts.

[hobknob]

The randomness in warp points come from a distance factor with some having a long distance to travel and therefore are rated a bit higher as well as some being short and a bit lower. This basically amounts to being the reason behind a failure to survey a WP that seems to fall within the success range of your fleet. The solution to this is to add some more ships to the fleet.

 

Another point to remember is that installations give a fixed bonus to the sensor level of the fleet and characters only reduce the WP difficulty by a %.

 

Happy Surveying

[Ixitixl]

I must agree with DWillard's point #1. Two fleet scouts both with 5 Mk I Jump Survey Sensors, and both with a 3rd level scientist attempted to survey two different Class C warp points. One was successful, the other failed.

 

And I recall Pete writing a post some time ago that there was no randomness in surveying warp points. Either it can or it can't. So this would suggest that the numbers given to us for difficulty are merely an approximation...

 

Of course the ship that failed to survey the Class C warp point had to be in a warp point nexus.

[Laserwolf]

Perhaps racial exploration bonuses assist as well?

[DWillard]

Yes, but as far a I know racial bonuses are also fixed and would be applied equally to all SURV attempts.