Starting the Action

[RTGRuss]

I've corrected the format problem this thread was having.

 

It pops up when you have an object (often from a paste) like a horizontal rule as part of the body of your post. The object doesn't line wrap so it ends up setting the thread width to accomodate.

 

Russ

[T'Aleen Empire]

Well I think the game as a whole is pretty good, and if you think about it...most likely this is what it will be like in space when we of this Blue Earth really start exploring the stars ourselves for real. We will be scared with that first contact, but hopefully we can get along and make friends !!! It will most likely be a long time till you find another alien race , but it will be you and your new best friend against the universe

[DWillard]

For people worried about trading, the AP movement limits of warp points means for effective trading to really occur, you and your partners need to have colonies very close to each other where trading could be done. For example if you each had a colony in the (heavan forbid) other players home star, the colonies could produce items being traded for rapid trading to your partner. Heck, each partner can probably supply much of the processed materials with convoy routes bringing the processed materials from their homeworld (Improved Electronics, Advanced Steel, etc...) to the colonies that then assemble the desired traded units (Mk xx Engines, Advanced weapons, whatever). SN means players who really work togehter WILL do a lot better than others.

 

I don't see effective trading being able to occur for a LONG time and only after being much more technologically advanced. Having "colonies very close to each other" is irrelevent with current technology. Somebody is still having to haul a lot of materials a long way over a long period of time.

 

Best case senario might be two allies set up on eachother's homeworld with ideal colonization conditions for each (how likely is this??). Each homeworld supplies components (electronics, steel, etc.) to his ally on his homeworld. The ally then builds the items from the components and gives the completed items back. The homeworld player can then put those items into orbital defenses to defend his warp points against the warmongers. I assume this is the way the majority of us will be using weopon systems since no decent, rational, intelligent, moral, superiorly enlightened player would actually build warships to go and attack somebody. That's not what this game is about, right? I mean we all know that the only way to play this game with any virtue or high-principled integrity is to be a peaceful neighbor only interested in trade and defense against the brain dead, knuckle dragging neanderthals.

 

Anyway, back to the above example. Even this best case senario is full of pitfalls. To make trade worthwhile, you must be trading sufficient quantities. Would it be worthwile to invest in a trade partnership for only a few items per turn? I don't think so. To be able to do anything, you are going to need to trade hundreds, even thousands of completed items a turn. So let's say I'm supplying my trading parter with 1000 heavy beam lasers a turn on his homeworld. Even with him providing the components, I will need 30,000 Industrial Complexes to assemble them! Think of the resources and time involved in setting up a 30,000 pop colony that is 8-12 systems away. What if colonization conditions are not ideal? Now you have to factor in more pop just to maintain this level.

 

Ok, so setting up trade colonies in each others home systems is out of the question at this point in the game. To trade in sufficient quantities, the items will have to be constructed on each players homeworld (where they have enough pop to do it) and then either shipped to the trading partner's homeworld or some point inbetween. One problem here is the time involved. Several players have already posted that by the time you get new tech up to your front lines, it might well be obsolete. If that's the case, then how much more obsolete will items be that are coming to your homeworld from 10 systems behind you and then have to get put into ships and sent another 10 systems to the front.

 

So here's my point. Considering how far apart we were set up, how long it's taking to research items, and how quickly the items are going up in cost, trading with allies will not be profitable for a long, long time. Anything that would speed this up would benefit the players wanting to work together much more that it would benefit the lone warmonger, especially considering the way this game favors the defender. Just because someone is frustrated with the slowness of the game does not mean they are a brain dead neanderthal that can't wait to bash their first neighbor or that they don't have the patience or intelligence to form a strategic plan.

[hobknob]

Dwillard -

 

I think you are mostly right, but the ideal trading platform will be sombody elses homeworld. To my thinking the best possible solution is to have 2-3 empires put the squeeze on another and then split the vanquished homeworld into equal parts. At first it would be slow, but 3 allies could each have 150,000 pop in their part of the planet. This would do quite nicely and nobody would have to worry about transporting colonists or attrition ratings or the like. And don't forget Planetary Gate technology. Who knows, it might only be an advance or two a way.

[Lotix1417]

Hmmm....

 

Last I heard, Neanderthals walked erect, had a sophisticated culture and burial rites, and had a brain size comparable to modern day humans (and slightly larger than most). While brain size does not directly indicate advanced intelligence, Neanderthals did have advanced tools and some interesting cultural developments.

 

While they were physically strong, and are assumed to be warlike, I'd venture to guess that, just in the past century, we "holier than thou" humans were far more effective at killing and barbarism. Most often employing treachery and justifying actions in the name of good stomping out evil for our various gods.

 

While nobody knows for sure what happened to the Neanderthals to make them extinct, one leading theory is that they merged (bred) with our ancestors, which explains why we now have larger brains and are stronger. Other theories suggest that their diet and changing climate conditions doomed them.

 

Anyhow, calling someone a Neanderthal may very well be a compliment considering their physical prowess, large brains, advanced culture and complex burial rites.

 

-Lotix1417

[WKE235]

Off topic -- the interesting thing about Neanderthal culture is there seemed to be a lot of rapid development and growth right near the end. Speculation is rampant. Were they changing and growing due to the pressures from our ancestors? Or merely parroting what they saw on the others? Or perhaps the culture was changing from within as it was taken over by our ancestors? We will likely never know.

 

It would be nice to locate something within the DNA structure of modern man that could be related to them. People have been searching, and nothing has been located that could be pointed to and said "AH-HA .. Neanderthal". Not sure how you could definately say it belonged to "X" and not the rest of the tree.

[Ur Lord Tedric]

Just to return to the thread and DWillard's point on the economic effort involved in trading, because I think he's missed a trick - provided you trust your trading partner!

 

All the effort that is possibly needed (needs proof) is to send one itty-bitty ship to another players HW with one Colonial Beacon on board - and establish the colony. (For this and all below the other party needs to do this as well.)

 

The player who owns the world then LC/OC's in 1 x Pop and 250,000 CM. The trading player then builds a Transfer Centre. The HW player TR's in sufficient Pop & CM's to build (something like) 1000 IC's.

 

Thereafter the HW player sends in the necessary resources each turn, the trading partner builds what you've agreed and has an XTR to send it along in the next turn.

 

On the assumption that both are doing just this you get an easy trade system in place for whatever trade rates you agree (there has been some work on this to establish an exchange rate mechanism).

 

Actually the sad thing might be that there aren't going to be many trade convoys to protect or pirate.

 

Of course, you may not trust someone to come to your HW, but you could have it nearby and the routes would be a sensible distance. But it's only a tiny ship with a CB on board!

 

M2CW

 

Chief Trader to Ur-Lord Tedric

[DWillard]

If the game allows you to transfer pop from one player to another, this would work on each ally's home world. Maybe we could get an answer from Pete on this question???

 

If it's not on the home world, then you are once again looking at a huge investement to transport tens of thousands of pop off world, which means there would have to be a nearby planet with ideal colonization conditions or the costs just go up that much more, especailly if it's out of system. In my example above, even if the world was nearly ideal and suffered only a 1% attrition, that's 300 pop dying per turn.

 

(Keep in mind that I'm talking about viable trade up to this point in the game where first contacts are taking place. I know as advanced tech comes along trade will become easier and hopefully more profitable. It's just that I think it's still a long way off)

[President Guztov]

DWillard, This very aspect of the game will be tested very soon as a neighbor of mine will set up a colony in my Home System. If it is allowed to transfer POP directly to his colony then building up the colony will proceed much much faster then orginally planned. Stay tuned.

[DWillard]

Stay tuned indeed. A lot of people will be anxiously awaiting the results of this

[DWillard]

Hobknob,

 

 

Oh yeah! Very good idea . That one deserves a toast

 

The drawback, obviously, is that it will only be feasible under very limited circumstances -- two or three players meeting up, becoming allies, able to trust each other, finding a player to take out, taking him out, etc, etc. Though ideal, it certainly won't be happening anytime soon.

 

Nontheless, it does sound very appealing...............except for one thing. It would take all the fun out of nuking the enemies homeworld into oblivion. :lol:

[Aquilonia]

Why to let somone open a base at my homeworld?

He needs to carry the resources or processed items, to his homeworld anyway unless not intend to build armies, warships and MDDs at my homeworld.

Sure, there must be trust. But in which level ? The espionage should be integral part in the game as well.

 

Without the tech level for ability to perform multiple jumps or to create gates/warp points, trade might be limited by amount and by number of empires.

 

It would be fun to list some systems as main trade centers in the galaxy.

[hobknob]

I think the point of having a smallish colony on your allies homeworld is not for you to be able to get stuff, rather it is for you to create items that will then be tranferred to your gracious host. You would get the benefit of his items from the same type of colony on your homeworld.

 

[T'Aleen Empire]

The real trick is to set up these small colonies on each of your allies HW and they set up one on yours, thus as each of you needs something that the other can only build, you simply 'Transfer' to that allias colony on your HW and they build the items, and then transfer them back to you. So you basically feed that colony all the resources that it might need to build the stuff that you might need, and they would do the same to your colony on their own HW. Working together as one for mutual befit!

 

[AKO]

And by transferring equal amounts of construction materials, this can go very quickly and efficient. Trade doesn't necessarily have to be in very advanced tech, you can just save each other the hassle of transportation.