Aquilonia Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 How long time you prefer to get ready in game contact and interactions and which kind of technology it should be to make it possible in case Galactic Council (RTG) hears and votes for this wish ? PS: If any ideas, I may do another poll with new choices ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 I think the pace is fine. Eventually there will be (I hope) techs to allow continued movement after warp jumps, or maybe even the ability as the Poll states to create your own warp points. But I'm content to wait to develop the tech. I know there are some folks out there who want to play the game where they simply build military fleets and smash everything they can. Their having to slowly move a fleet through 6, 7, or 8 Warps over the same number of turns is frustrating to them as they can't get that immediate satisfaction of pounding on someone to show they are oh so superior. Planning ahead for a battle in x turns, having to worry that the opponent has time to see them coming and prepare defenses, the long drawn out supply lines and time involved in transfers .. all that thinking hurts their heads. For players like that, I would suggest this game is not for them. For other players who see the military IS very important in the game it just takes a lot more planning and prep work, they will enjoy the challenges of SN. For people worried about trading, the AP movement limits of warp points means for effective trading to really occur, you and your partners need to have colonies very close to each other where trading could be done. For example if you each had a colony in the (heavan forbid) other players home star, the colonies could produce items being traded for rapid trading to your partner. Heck, each partner can probably supply much of the processed materials with convoy routes bringing the processed materials from their homeworld (Improved Electronics, Advanced Steel, etc...) to the colonies that then assemble the desired traded units (Mk xx Engines, Advanced weapons, whatever). SN means players who really work togehter WILL do a lot better than others. So do not touch the whole warp point system due to a few whiners. I think the game is working fine as it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Pretty harsh words, WKE! I respect what you say 100% , 99% of the time However, I don't agree that people fall into one of the two camps as you describe. I, for one, am still on the record for wanting less space between empires to encourage more interaction. Regardless, my head is just fine in terms of planning and preparing for alien contact. In fact, the depth for strategic planning is awesome. I routinely recommend this game to other people. I was expecting that we might be separated by 8 systems. However, I think its more like 12. I still think that a separation above 12 systems is too harsh....the game is more interesting when you bump into other empires: friends or foes. Maybe I'm alone on that position - but I'd much rather interact with another player than the neutrals I find. With that said, I'm still confident about the game and the design. I'm content with the current warp jumping technology. I just hope that we aren't spread out over 12 systems....that translates to 6 months of play just to go between homeworlds with the current design. To be a contrarian against myself, the space between is a nice buffer and allows neighbors some room to establish outward bases and some flexibility for expansion....if it gets TOO crowded.... I can see where more than a 12 system separation will be unacceptable for some people - but I'm willing to see what gives if thats the case. My guess: its about 12 systems separation...maybe 16. The early contact might have taken some luck. /shrug We'll nail down how separated we are in the next couple of months. Its very encouraging to hear of contact (albeit the first historic moment of contact was staged LMAO) I never meant to "whine" about it. I'm entitled to my opinion, like anybody else here. Further, I am enjoying the mechanics of the game and the crew on these boards. I'm not the type who wants to flex and brag....it would be fun to see some action, though. Impatience aint a virtue and I have too much of it at times Believe me - I'm in no rush to go smash somebody --- I couldn't <------ My fleets are literally as frightening as my icon. Lastly, I agree 100% with your points on colonies. The slower warping really establishes "turf" - which wasnt there in SNII. To quote one GM - "its a tough balance" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 When this game has been going 3 years, I reckon that will be the time for this discussion. At present, as I'm writing a review, I certainly intend to comment on the patience needed. Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldred Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 For what its worth, I think the balance is about right. IMO other space conquest games lose any level of realism when you discover that intelligent (ie space-faring) life exists in almost every other system you explore. Coupled with the ease of warp travel in many of these games first contact (and 2nd & 3rd for that matter) is normally only a couple of turns away. Travel between systems should be time consuming and also a little "challenging". The general view is that intelligent life in the universe is probably extremely rare. I think the game mechanics do their best to reflect this. Having said all that it would be nice to have some very exotic warp technology somewhere (high up) the tech tree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquilonia Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 I m not in rush to go and smash someone but I think it would be more fun to make small skirmishes, prepare defenses, improve relations, form alliances, establish trade routes etc, while developing the empire... In my opinion either distances are much or jump mechanism needs to powered up... In a matter of fact, this is a game for a community consisted of many players, and we respect general opinion and designers point of view... Be good everybody... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Harsh words? Yes, I guess I'm sometimes a little sensitive on this subject. I've run into too many individuals over the years in other 4E like games where fighting is the only thing that interests them. The great strength of this game, the depth for strategic planning as you called it, eludes such individuals. I better shut-up before I start ranting again about brain-dead, knuckle dragging neanderthals who find the primary purpose for a computer keyboard is for clubbing their food to death ... oops, sorry, there I go again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiver Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 I also think that the warp capabilities and star distances in this game are just about exactly right for gameplay. I like the fact that I have a "patch of space" to call my own, so to speak...and that the great distances between systems (more generous than in REAL space, I might add) force players to mull over the real considerations of alliances, trade partners, diplomacy, logisitcs, and supply lines. This takes a lot more strategic prowess than simply showing up at your neighbor's doorstep and "smashing" them. It is true that this setup means that it is now crucial to form trade and defense alliances with your more palatable neighbors. By design, each empire will not always have everything it needs at its disposal at any given time. Having a good neighbor who can willingly supply these needs will ensure an empire's success. Those who have strong alliances will definitely have the strongest empires. Those "smash 'em and run" players should definitely consider that if they want to be around for long. _____________________________________________________________________ My only disappointment in system exploration is that I wish space wasn't so darned empty. In my experience, over HALF of the systems I've explored have no planets in them at all. I know that's realistic (even better than real space, I know), but this is one case in which I wish the game wasn't quite so realistic. Having to traipse through warp nexus after warp nexus on the way to a habitable system makes the distances between stars seem even greater. The "stop after warp" rule becomes annoying sometimes as well, but I'm confident that our scientists will eventually discover a way around that small problem. ______________________________________________________________________ All in all, I'm very satisfied. Can't wait to meet another space-faring race! (These conqurered neanderthal neutrals are becoming boring.) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 I would like to see jump technology introduced that allows movement after warping, so that you might be able to cover 2 or 3 warps in a turn. Of course there should also be the possibility to stop enemy fleets from skipping through a defended system with an engagement order. The result would be not unlike Victory's "Advance to Contact" situation where armored divisions can cover lots of ground, but only if it is uncontested. This would allow defense in depth, but also speed up trade and inter-system colonization efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 IMHO the distances between stars are irrelevant, it's only the time that it takes to move that matters. I would have liked to see a position be able to control the immediate 2-4 systems out form it and then be bumping into somebody else. Being 8, 10 or even more away from anybody does make any sort of contact very impractical, whether it be agressive, neutral or friendly actions. For the colonizers among us even close systems are too far and too difficult to colonize give the current warp restrictions and the lack of any way to transfer cargo between fleets. I find myself getting to the 8th system out from the homeworld and aside from a few neutrals that are of little value I find I am alone. I hope this is because somebody has dropped early on and I will eventually find their stuff, but it is disheartening to think that I am actually more than 8 away from contact. At the current rate of things and without my crystal ball functioning very well I don't forsee any galactic wars happening as most things look to be limited to your immediate surroundings. Part of the allure to SN:ROTE was supposed to be the conquering of an opponent either through economic pressure, subterfuge or direct force. So far I feel a real lack of friends or enemies alike. As a note, it has been mentioned by Pete in previous messages that it will be possible to warp more than once in a turn or to go through more than a single warp point in a turn. This technology is already in the game and we just have to find it. Evidence of this has been seen in the "Planetary Cargo Gate" finds that have been made and other very suggestive techs. Eventually we should be able to move around a bit easier. The question is, will it be enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaseDragon Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Here's my 2 cents.... Games with empire building as the ultimate goal have to be dynamic enough to allow that growth while still allowing the agressive player a chance to be agressive. The length of time for that growth should be determined by agression levels of the players involved and not necessarily by the game itself. The game is obviously designed to give the player on the defensive a significant advantage so nobody should be too worried that they will be wiped out by someone any time soon even if we could contact each other in 5 turns or so. Strategy will deter anyone from getting too aggressive since there aren't too many advantages to unsuccessful attacks. The risk of having to wait too long for contact is that people will quit playing because of lack of interaction. The other side of the coin is that because it takes sooo long to make contact it will discourage people from dropping positions and then setting up new ones to get a better start. It takes too long to find someone. A solution might be to have a galaxy set up for agressive players that is closer together and one that is spaced farther apart for non-agressive players so we could decide which game we wanted to play from the start. Assuming that the one already created is the non-agressive one then all we need is one closer together for the war mongers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 I think the game is generally great, and making it a logicistical challenge to attack, trade and interact is an excellent idea that makes the game more interesting. However, the space between us all excessive - I am fast approaching the one year mark in this game and I've yet to see another player. I'd like SOME kind of interaction with another player! In regard to the spacing "problem" being fixed with some new tech, I don't think that will be the case. I've noticed that no single tech advance makes a dramatic difference by itself (the really useful ones are very expensive) and I don't see that changing with some kind of special jump drive - if they are out there, they will be prohibatively expensive to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octagon999 Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 This is not a thread hijack, promise!!! I actually agree with Ed Mooney (except for the graphics) on this. Very early on I suggested the possibility of an "alternate" universe for those who wanted (like me) faster turnaround times. (1 wk) This wasn't very popular, but I still like it. I like Ed's suggestion of having an alternate universe, closer in nature, for the mix-em-up warmongers among us (not me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 For me, the 'faring' has always been part of 'spacefaring.' While it's true that we joined this game primarily to interact with other player positions, I do like the feeling of 'vastness' that the game seems to be giving. Heck, when I meet my first player position, I want there to be a feeling of accomplishment! You know... the pay off of years of investment and research and exploration. First Contact should be an AH-HAH moment, for me. I'm guessing that there's going to be a lot of space in this universe though. It's in Rolling Thunder's best interest to make things expansive. Indeed, when things become crowded, I hope that there appears a mode for picking up everything and moving to another, unexplored, section of space. I'm a cat. I vant to be alone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldred Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Is it just my computer or has the formatting of this thread got lost somewhere - I now have to scroll across the page to read everything! >>>>Sorry, ignore this, its just fixed itself!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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