Weak Ship Screens

[Ixitixl]

Can you still conquer other Players, sure.  You'll just need friends to do it.  I shall predict, at this time, that it will take 3:1 odds to take out the average position.  In other words, the combined might of three Empires will be required to conquer a single, non-Abandoned, Empire.  Anything less than that and your throwing away good resources after bad, IMO. 

 

-SK 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I remember a similar estimate made about 2 - 3 years ago, when we were using the previous message board. In my opinion, it is nice to see that this still remains true. For myself, I would hate to see my empire go down in flames in a few turns because one of my neighbors wanted my resources. I am sure Justinain of the Roman Empire would agree with this, especially after having to face at least two enemy empires (The Eyre and The Go'ald) early on in the game.

 

This of course may not be true for all cases... The Mantodea Empire began 6 months after the Core Empires began and spent all but 12 SRP in racial design with almost no research bonus. Let's say that I had Locklyn of the GGT as a neighbor and for some reason wanted to grind my empire to dust (perhaps he doesn't like my accent, eh!) As we have seen on the boards, Locklyn appears to have a considerable technological advantage. Would he still need two more allies to defeat me?

[ali-t-akua]

I am sure Justinain of the Roman Empire would agree with this, especially after having to face at least two enemy empires (The Eyre and The Go'ald) early on in the game.

 

One of the nice things about SN I was the newsletter that let you know that there was some action out in the universe even if you knew the participants. The comment about Justinian reminded me of this fact. In SN:ROTE we really don't know what is going on except what is posted here.

 

While details and names are great, I just want to know if there are things going on in the universe. Are great wars being fought that we have no knowledge of? What happened to The Romans, The Eyre and The Go'ald?

 

I know that my empire is not the only empire out there but sometimes the SN:ROTE universe does seem really vast.

[WKE235]

I don't think it was RTG's intent to make it so everyone is nigh invulnerable.  This may be overcompensation for the end result of SuperNova II - Nigh Unstoppable Roving Fleets of UberDrone Laden Monstrosities.  It has been stated in the past that this game forces an emphasis on Trade not Conquest.  The only Empires that you can take out by yourself are Abandoned ones, Empires that used to belong to a player but were dropped, if you are fortunate to find such a prize.  The "Core" being a richer environment for such things than the "Periphery".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Overall the trade aspect of the game leaves a lot to be desired (if that was the emphasis). I mean, you can't trade horizon techs or installations or ground combat techs. Certainly there are many good reasons behind that due to the design. But still, a large portion of the tech tree cannot be traded, which forces everyone to research those same items if they want advances. On the other side, in the techs that can be traded, everyone is researching the same basic items -- computers for fire control, armor for defense, engines for movement, improved and advanced materials to build them all .. and then finally, after all of these basics, ancillary odds and ends. You can't sit there, not knowing who your neighbors are, and NOT research these items. Since they are using SRP on those first advances, you need the same things.

 

And once you do meet with a friendly neighbor, you have to spend the time and cost to move pop and materials to build colonies close to each other to make trading potentially worth while. But then after all that time and effort, what do you trade? With so much the same among empires, there is very little to trade of value.

 

So what we have is a game that is developing into nigh invincible empires (defense wise), who have researched many of the same basic things to reach that point, and have no real need to trade as with 60% boosted industry and deep core surveyors, they can sit on their planet the rest of the game and yawn, probably growing as fast or faster economically then anyone involved in active colonization programs.

[hobknob]

I think trading is fine. I have several trading partners at all stages of the tech ladder and I still find trade to be beneficial, especially once we got our production ques in line. There is always something of use, even if it is just fuel tankage or cargo bays. You don't always need to have the highest tech items to be a good trading partner, but it does help if you are aware of the relative value of your own trade goods.

 

Last turn I delivered almost 800,000 tons of stuff to my various trading partners and returned with about the same tonnage of stuff.

 

As long as you have something that the other guy has to produce any way, you have a trade good that will let you trade.

 

[Marvin]

  This of course may not be true for all cases...  The Mantodea Empire began 6 months after the Core Empires began and spent all but 12 SRP in racial design with almost no research bonus.  Let's say that I had Locklyn of the GGT as a neighbor and for some reason wanted to grind my empire to dust (perhaps he doesn't like my accent, eh!)  As we have seen on the boards, Locklyn appears to have a considerable technological advantage.  Would he still need two more allies to defeat me?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I predict he would squash you like a bug. You might have some chance if you've built a huge swarm fleet, but Locklyn also has a huge swarm fleet, a much better one, so could counter-swarm you. It's an old argument but I have yet to be convinced that non SRP races can hope to compete with SRP races. The SRP races sprint ahead and the non-SRP race will never catch up. You'll always be several generations behind in all the important areas.

 

WKE235: I agree that trade is labor intensive and often not worth the bother. There are exceptions but overall I think trade has been oversold.

 

ali-t-akua: You've hit the nail on the head about the lack of a SNROTE GM authored newsletter. I believe such newsletters are important to PBM games. The old SN2 newsletters were much looked forward to each turn and doubtless kept people in the game who would otherwise loose interest. SNROTE has no cohesion. There are no epic struggles that we can all follow. No good vs evil. No great alliances squaring off. There are some small scale conflicts that we sometimes get glimpses of when players post about them here. Since it's player postings you can never really be sure about their veracity. Some players have tried to fill the newsletter void but cannot due to their myopic perspective. Mad Martin posting stories about forming an evil alliance were entertaining but lacked much substance because it was all from a single player's perspective, and they fizzled out when MM left the game. It takes a GM to write about the big picture and they won't.

 

I guess I'll go ahead here and anger most by writing something critical about RTG. Why isn't there a GM newsletter highlighting some of the larger wars and accomplishments that surely must be occurring? Is it lack of time? If so, where is the time going? Processing turns seems to only take a few days and cannot be worked on in between. We are not seeing a deluge of game fixes and improvements by any stretch. They are not spending their time reading and posting answers here. This isn't SN2 where they spend time typing in everyone's orders. We do that for them now. Emails are often ignored so there doesn't seem to be much time spent there. Is there a handful of annoying players keeping them on the phone all day?

 

A SNROTE newsletter could easily be worked on between turns and just ran a turn late. Browse the larger battles each turn and write up a colorful summary. Invite individual players to submit items for inclusion. Run some canned database queries to produce some top 10 lists etc. It should only take a few hours per turn cycle to put together a decent GM newsletter.

[Hughestrog]

Marvin, this has been suggested by Eternus, well the 'Who's the biggest at war fleets/tonnage cargo carried/most colonies/etc:

 

http://www.rollingthunderforums.com/index....topic=1150&st=0

 

32.5% No

25% Eternus get a life!

42.5% Yes

 

Mind you only about 40 players actually voted.

 

And there is Victory! for the GM's to moderate. And other requests by the SN:ROTE players such as the improved naval document, etc.

[Hughestrog]

The idea sounds good though. Every turn or every couple of turns?

[Lord Uriel]

I think a periodic newsletter would be interesting. I'd vote no on the top ten lists. I still believe anything taking place before a complete, final draft of the naval combat document is a serious error.

 

As far as the newsletter; as long as it did not give detailed battle reports of the players involved that would be pretty neat.

Something along the lines of "fleets of Warmonger Empire were engaged and defeated by a Peace Loving Bug Empire task force."

 

Or, "a fleet engagement between X and Y empire occurred in system ABC."

 

 

My two cents ...

 

Lord Uriel

[ali-t-akua]

I think a periodic newsletter would be interesting.  I'd vote no on the top ten lists.  I still believe anything taking place before a complete, final draft of the naval combat document is a serious error.

 

As far as the newsletter; as long as it did not give detailed battle reports of the players involved that would be pretty neat. 

Something along the lines of "fleets of Warmonger Empire were engaged and defeated by a Peace Loving Bug Empire task force."

 

Or, "a fleet engagement between X and Y empire occurred in system ABC."

 

 

My two cents ...

 

Lord Uriel

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lord Uriel, that was my thought regarding a newsletter. No detail, just enough information to color game and let players know that there are things happening. As for the naval document, I agree that completing it would be good but since we have a draft and appear to be almost have it done, I am looking at what would be the next things I would like to see. This is one of them.

[Lord Uriel]

Ali-t-akua,

I think our thoughts are similiar on the newsletter. I see nothing wrong with "next on my wish list is ..."

 

However, considering how long it took to get the rough draft, I'm not holding my breath on the final version. I'll wait til that is out before I add my wish list.

 

 

As my students would say "peace out!"

 

Lord Uriel

[Locklyn]

Marvin wrote:

 

"I predict he would squash you like a bug. You might have some chance if you've built a huge swarm fleet, but Locklyn also has a huge swarm fleet, a much better one, so could counter-swarm you. It's an old argument but I have yet to be convinced that non SRP races can hope to compete with SRP races. The SRP races sprint ahead and the non-SRP race will never catch up. You'll always be several generations behind in all the important areas."

 

First off, I would never squash anyone like a bug, I like bugs! Some of my closest allies are bugs!

 

Secondly, I'm not a SRP race, when I had built my race Pete had only said that the first low levels of tech was buyable with srp and not the truth about it being all the way up to 4th so I had only 63 points saved after designing my race, wish it was otherwise.

 

Cheers

/Locklyn

[EternusIV]

Some bullet responses and new questions....

 

1) Old hat/dead horse....The impact of screens surely comes as a curveball for most in this game for which we must account (old news for those of us who attempted to get clarity on the issue over a year ago) The race between armor/fields/coating v. fire control reduces our fliexibility in designing fleets if we intend to prepare to win the fight.

 

2) A GM-produced newsletter is something that would surely engender more interest in the game. We should balance empire sensitive information. A player-based newsletter simply won't fit the bill as a GM-sponsored one would.

 

3) SRP races have a distinct advantage in developing superior fleets faster. There are simply no numbers for the non-SRP races to laud for any comfort on this issue. Conversely, brain-in-the-jar races will have a hell of a time against a well designed ground race. Think of all that wasted space tonnage if 'conquering' the uber ground race is reduced to bombarding the crud out of them. GROUND COMBAT will become a more valuable topic over the next couple of years as players tire of cleaning up dropped/AI positions. Time is the worst enemy of SRP races...as their non-SRP adversaries slowly catch up with them....and eventually surpass them in some instances...(hey, a Mk V Goo-Slinger is a Mk V Goo-Slinger...quite a difference when a gnat pulls the trigger as opposed to a 50-ft Titanic Telepathic Hellspawn With Wings)

 

4) Trade/Diplomacy: as loyal as I am to RTG and to Pete and Russ, I think that this is a part of the game that is under-developed from an internal-design perspective. We are left to our own devices to develop these two facets of the game...which has both the flower of opportunity and the thorn of chaos. The results are mixed, and perhaps a bit on the dry side. Although the minimalist approach of having the playerbase craft the future of diplomacy and trade is very realistic, it makes for uninspired and guideless play -- especially for new players IMHO. What about a galactic marketplace? Trading hubs that might encourage piracy, espionage and strategic hotspots? A *built-in* political system that gives players more options for participation? The game lacks these features, but that isn't enough for me to abandon the game altogether. In a perfect universe, RTG could enhance the wonders out of this game! Bu I think some realism is called for.

 

I belong in the camp that does not see this as a trade/diplomacy game (I am of the Expansionist PArty ) The rule emphasis is clearly focused on exploration, research, building fleets, building armies and combat.

 

 

Marvin-

 

Some interesting questions.

 

Why isn't there a GM newsletter highlighting some of the larger wars and accomplishments that surely must be occurring? Is it lack of time?

 

I think a newsletter must balance the privacy and protection of vital empire information, lest the newsletter undermine all player and design efforts to similate espionage. I'm all for a GM-based newsletter.

 

If so, where is the time going? Processing turns seems to only take a few days and cannot be worked on in between. We are not seeing a deluge of game fixes and improvements by any stretch. They are not spending their time reading and posting answers here.

 

I think RTG has addressed their choice of time-allocation through their "Letter to the Players" on more than one instance. No two players' expectations are the same. I, for one, do not see a pressing need for more than a couple of tweaks in the game system, much less a 'deluge' of them. Can any of us honestly say that the latest Naval Primer document was of such import as to reinvent our concept of the game? To my knoweldge, based on the same information accessible to the rest of you, RTG is working on reorganizing the rules with updates. If you are not pleased with the pace of game improvements, your options are obvious

 

 

This isn't SN2 where they spend time typing in everyone's orders. We do that for them now.

 

Osmosis failed in beta test? To be fair, I think a GM-based production spreadsheet that imports the results into direct orders would be an ideal and revolutionary improvement. However, I still don't see how the current order processing can avoid our current duty. And yes - I can only imagine that order entry on our end reduces their need to read handwritten orders and enter them into the program - but I also see that the number of RTG employees has adjusted accordingly.

 

Emails are often ignored so there doesn't seem to be much time spent there. Is there a handful of annoying players keeping them on the phone all day?

 

Personally, I haven't called more than 6-7 times...only emergency stuff (ie missing MDB files) or when completely baffled (early on)

 

Email responses have been fine for me. I notice there is a response window -- submitting your emails a day or two before the turn deadline seems to create a faster response.

 

25% Eternus get a life!

 

Tell me about it LOL I'm pleased to report that 25% of those who voted have their wish (as evidenced by my lower number of posts) It is my intention to put on my geek hat more aggressively over the next month, so beware (and maybe I'll actually finish my mapping projects)

[SargonKingOfSlith]

Wow!

 

I leave town for a few days. And when I return, there's and actual discussion on the board.

 

Fantastic!

[Hughestrog]

A *built-in* political system that gives players more options for participation? 

 

The Galactic Senate?

 

Maybe give it another while to resurrect this.

[EternusIV]

A *built-in* political system that gives players more options for participation? 

 

The Galactic Senate?

 

Maybe give it another while to resurrect this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL

 

I may have found some more free time over the next week or so...but not THAT much free time