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GATKs


Sakarissa
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I've been doing some pondering on the nature of Ground Attacks and the taking over of colonies/Home Worlds. Let's say you suspect that someone is about to invade your ground territory. The reason you suspect this is that one of their fleets just arrived above your HW and blew up all your defenses. All the defender ever needs after that is a single troop unit. Doesn't even matter what kind. Look at the time line below.

 

Turn 1: Attacker takes over the high orbits (assuming battle takes place) and issues a COLB.

 

Turn 1 results: The attacker now knows what his pop group number is on the alien HW. The defender has the typical "Oh Sh!t!" reaction.

 

Turn 2: The attacker wants to disgorge his troops into the pop group and then into a newly created army. Minimum of three pulses. Pulse 1 = OC troops. Pulse 2 = NEWA for the troops. Pulse 3 = DIV ALL. The defender simply scoffs at the attacker and even does a mocking jig in the attackers general direction. That's because he issued a GATK order on either pulse 1 or pulse 2. Since the attacker pop group was undefended, it should be taken over by the Defender. The attacker troop commander has a few choice words with the fleet commander as the beacon has suddenly stopped transmitting right before the mass troop drop.

 

 

I'm assuming that is a GATK is issued, all enemy pop groups are attacked and not just a single pop group.

 

Well, I just read the Orders Supplement and have even more questions. The example states "If no enemy forces are detected, no attack takes place and the Divisions in Army # 1 will not be flagged as having fought." How are enemy forces defined? I consider an enemy pop group an enemy force. Does that quoted text mean that if there are no enemy troop units in the pop group that the GATK order fails? Also, when a GATK order is issued, how many enemy filled pop groups are affected? Only one per order? All of them per order?

 

These questions assumes its the defender/owner of the world issuing the GATK. I know that if an attacker issues a GATK and there are no defending units no battle takes place and the ownership of the pop group(s) changes hands.

 

Looks like the attacker will always get one attack in before the defender can do anything about it. Unless the defender can blow up the troopships on Pulse one but I think the OC order will actually process before the ship(s) enter battle.

 

Sakarissa :alien:

The Circle

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The scenario that you pose is exactly as it is stated and outlined in the rules. Fortunately that is not reality. Pete has mentioned numerous times that he would not allow such a course of events to happen, so they never do. In the event that one slips by a correction is likely in order.

 

Units that find no enemy still capture all of the enemy/neutral pop groups. The main difference is that no ground attack report is generated. Your troops would be available for another combat, but that is generally not a concern or relevant.

 

One question that still persists - When can a HW capture the enemy pop groups that have been placed for a n invasion. I understand the need to all the attacker a chance to invade, but what about the pop group that is placed and then not used for several turns?

 

 

:alien::drunk:

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Looks like the attacker will always get one attack in before the defender can do anything about it. Unless the defender can blow up the troopships on Pulse one but I think the OC order will actually process before the ship(s) enter battle.

 

As Hobknob said, Pete would intervene to prevent the scenerio you describe.

 

Now, as to the above statement, I asked Pete specifically what would happen on Pulse 1 if the HW owner moved a ship into orbit or did a scan, and forced a battle on Pulse one ... but the ships did an OC on pulse 1 to disgorge the troops. The answer was the OC will always succeed. As mentioned before if a ship or scan notices enemy ships, it is flagged for a potential battle. And that battle occurs after other orders are processed on the pulse (so the other ship could move away before the battle). This being the case, the OC will drop the troops on the planet, and then your ships fight to the death in the skys above while the ground pounders have a smoke.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yes, another question regarding GATKs. Lets take two completely random empires named A & B. These two empires are in league with each other and are plotting to take over Empire C's HW. Assuming the armies of A & B on Empire C's HW issue their GATK on the same pulse, what would happen? The reason I'm asking is that Empire B isn't too advanced in Ground Combat and Empire A has better tech. If the army of empire A has ratings in Environmental and the army of Empire B doesn't, would the army of Empire B get the benefit of it since it is a joint assault? My guess right now is no however this is an important question. Uhm, theoretically that is. Not that I'm running any of these empires at all. Purely hypothetical situation.

 

Sakarissa :holiday:

The Circle

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Yes, another question regarding GATKs. Lets take two completely random empires named A & B. These two empires are in league with each other and are plotting to take over Empire C's HW. Assuming the armies of A & B on Empire C's HW issue their GATK on the same pulse, what would happen? The reason I'm asking is that Empire B isn't too advanced in Ground Combat and Empire A has better tech. If the army of empire A has ratings in Environmental and the army of Empire B doesn't, would the army of Empire B get the benefit of it since it is a joint assault? My guess right now is no however this is an important question. Uhm, theoretically that is. Not that I'm running any of these empires at all. Purely hypothetical situation.

 

Sakarissa :holiday:

The Circle

 

If A & B defeat C, who gets control of the planet? :holiday:

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Yes, another question regarding GATKs. Lets take two completely random empires named A & B. These two empires are in league with each other and are plotting to take over Empire C's HW. Assuming the armies of A & B on Empire C's HW issue their GATK on the same pulse, what would happen? The reason I'm asking is that Empire B isn't too advanced in Ground Combat and Empire A has better tech. If the army of empire A has ratings in Environmental and the army of Empire B doesn't, would the army of Empire B get the benefit of it since it is a joint assault? My guess right now is no however this is an important question. Uhm, theoretically that is. Not that I'm running any of these empires at all. Purely hypothetical situation.

 

Sakarissa :holiday:

The Circle

 

Each empire uses it's own equipment and racial stats in the battle for their troops. But the allied troops DO join together for determining TAC. This can prove to be a devastating combination. For example, say Race A has lots of good ground pounding tech and has high strengths in things like close combat, heavy weapons, tanks, etcetera... Race B might be technically weaker. But they invested in the Telepathy, Telekinesis, and ESP at start. And that along with building the right troops allows them to be stronger in things like Special Weapons, the three esper powers, and maybe some other items like transport or environment (as they built extra troops for that). Together, the two races cover all the TAC's, and in each case they exceed Race C's defense. With a +17 Tactical shift, they together slaughter the defenders with few losses if any. Combined arms is impressive.

 

Note that this implies two races working closely together could each research differing combat branches. One could be a ground pounder, another versed in air combat and ranged weapons. Together they would provide a powerful force as many TAC branches could be covered, giving their armies a significant advantage in any fighting (as long as they fight together).

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Yes, another question regarding GATKs. Lets take two completely random empires named A & B. These two empires are in league with each other and are plotting to take over Empire C's HW. Assuming the armies of A & B on Empire C's HW issue their GATK on the same pulse, what would happen? The reason I'm asking is that Empire B isn't too advanced in Ground Combat and Empire A has better tech. If the army of empire A has ratings in Environmental and the army of Empire B doesn't, would the army of Empire B get the benefit of it since it is a joint assault? My guess right now is no however this is an important question. Uhm, theoretically that is. Not that I'm running any of these empires at all. Purely hypothetical situation.

 

Sakarissa :cheers:

The Circle

 

If A & B defeat C, who gets control of the planet? :holiday:

As Cestvel states you need to tell Pete what your plan is and how you expect to divide the spoils. Otherwise it is random.

 

However don't forget to tell your ally on which order you plan to attack. :(

 

And no, I have not made that mistake. I just am aware of the possibility. :holiday:

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Ground combats happen on the pulse that they are triggered, unlike space combat which takes place after all movements have happened for that order #.

 

So, it is not always a sure thing to have multiple parties joining in on the enemy bashing. :holiday:

 

At least not, if you have not informed Pete beforehand :holiday:

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Okay, just want to be sure how this works. Lets say that Empire A has a rating of 100 in Air Defense and Empire B has a rating of 400 in Air Defense. Are the two ratings added or is the highest taken only? Would the TAC show 500 Air Defense (summed ratings) or 400 Air Defense (highest only)? Good thing this is a completely hypothetical situation....

 

 

Sakarissa :holiday:

The Circle

Kindler & Gentler Warmonger

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Okay, just want to be sure how this works. Lets say that Empire A has a rating of 100 in Air Defense and Empire B has a rating of 400 in Air Defense. Are the two ratings added or is the highest taken only? Would the TAC show 500 Air Defense (summed ratings) or 400 Air Defense (highest only)? Good thing this is a completely hypothetical situation....

 

 

Sakarissa :holiday:

The Circle

Kindler & Gentler Warmonger

 

The total would be 500 Air Defense to compare against Player C's Air Defense for determining TAC.

 

Lets make this more fun

 

Player A and B are allied and attacking Player C's HW. Player C also has an ally, D, who managed to land some troops on the planet before A and B got there. C&D have reminded Pete that are allied and will defend the planet as one. A&B put in their GATK orders to attack on round 4 next turn. They also tell Pete they are doing this (just to make sure the game calcs them as allies and not part of some three way battle).

 

Using Air Defense, A&B add up to 500. C alone has 400 Air Defense. D brought along another 200, bringing their side to 600. To bad for A&B .. 500 vs 600 = -1 TAC on air defense for their attack. Lets assume things continue this way for many TAC's .. some A&B win, others C&D. Eventually A&B are doing a GATK order with a total of -12 TAC, or a shift of -1.2.

 

The final thing that determines victory is how hardy the troops are. If A&B are weaklings, they might lose divisions faster as they are overall smaller / weaker creatures. If stronger, they can take more damage, and the negative shift might be something they can absorb damage wise.

 

In this case, I'll say A&B vs C&D are about the same for overall hardiness of the troops and they lose divisions at equal rates. The net result: A&B get their results and are stunned to see they lost, and even more suprised to see D's troops there as well. The fortunes of war....

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As stunned as we were to learn of this concept of 'war' in space, now we find it is practiced planet-side as well??? How did you creatures ever cooperate long enough to develop sentience?

Now we have to research some kind of cybernetic augmentation for our stingers just to protect ourselves when you... people... come calling! :holiday:

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As stunned as we were to learn of this concept of 'war' in space, now we find it is practiced planet-side as well??? How did you creatures ever cooperate long enough to develop sentience?

Now we have to research some kind of cybernetic augmentation for our stingers just to protect ourselves when you... people... come calling! :holiday:

 

It is because of our conflicts that we developed sentience. After all, only the hardiest survive in this harsh universe. :holiday:

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