SargonKingOfSlith Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 It was a surprise to see your fleets 2 systems into my (The Voracious Horde) picketed space. I assume that's due to the lack of fleet sighting reports last turn. Please contact me at batkins23@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 It was a surprise to see your fleets 2 systems into my (The Voracious Horde) picketed space. I assume that's due to the lack of fleet sighting reports last turn. Please contact me at batkins23@yahoo.com Well, Pete said there wasn't an error with sightings last turn so the fleet must have decloaked or come through a wormhole or something. Unless Pete was wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfouasnon Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Hmmm...that could not be possible.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 No, Pete was wrong and the sighting reports were shit the turn before this last turn. Would have been nice had he said something about it though. /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 No, Pete was wrong and the sighting reports were shit the turn before this last turn. Would have been nice had he said something about it though. /Locklyn I heard Ori decloaked, threw 2 quarters into the basket, ran through one of Locklyns wormholes and then recloaked when he reached the other end..... I do it all the time, except I don't decloak and I use an EZTag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Capitan Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Finding unexpected fleets well into your picketed space was absolutely a direct result of the mass failure of sightings from last cycle. Hopefully the problems caused by this are few in number. but if this problem continues to pop up, the consequences could be devastating and far reaching. If I were you, I would insist that Pete remove the offending fleets to the point where they should have been initially spotted by your pickets and also have him remove the warp points surveyed from the intruder's data base. He'll still know the warp point numbers, but if he wants to continue back into your space, he'll at least have to re-survey them. Well, Pete said there wasn't an error with sightings last turn so the fleet must have decloaked or come through a wormhole or something. Unless Pete was wrong... When did Pete say there wasn't an error? Again, here's what he said: Sighting of enemy units during convoy routes is definitely something that can happen, and can trigger battles just like in regular fleet movements. If for whatever reason some possible sightings didn't occur as expected this cycle, they didn't happen and without a sighting there definitely won't be a combat. I'll look into it for next time and will put some stop statements in the code for locations I know are hotspots to keep a close eye on convoy route execution. And whatever the problem was, sightings were back to "normal" this turn. Was it a lackluster response? Absolutely. Was it the response I wanted? No. But honestly, with such a lackluster response from the players, what could Pete do? The only fair way to address the problem would have been to find and fix the problem and redo the cycle as quickly as possible. But for that to have had any chance of happening, there would had to have been a much more vocal response by a large number of players very soon after turns came out confirming that there was a huge problem with turn results. As it was, only a small handful of players posted and the majority of those were on into the afternoon when it was too late to do anything about the problem. I was watching the board closely that morning and within a couple of hours of turns coming in, as many as 50-60 guests had checked in. Most checked out the "Turns are in" thread, a few viewed the "Alien Fleet Sighting" thread, and even fewer posted to confirm that there was indeed a game wide problem. I guess if I had titled the thread "Missed beer deliveries", there would have been a substantially increased interest and response. And, if Pete would have done something more pro active about the problem (like rerunning the cycle) that's when you would have seen a fast and furious response by a large number of players, no doubt lead by rfuafufaffassafuffunon (I think that's his screen name) bitching and gripping that turns would be delayed (which is funny, because even if turns came in only 2 hours before the next cycle was due, he could still get his in on time with an hour to spare). So....... I know Pete takes a lot of heat for problems with the game, but in this case the responsibility also fell to the players. Otherwise, how was Pete to know this wasn't just an isolated problem rather than the game wide issue, with potentially far reaching consequenses, that it turned out to be? All this aside, and even though the sighting issue seems to be working at the moment, I still think there is room for improvement with the Sighting/ROE/PAP check/Space Battle sequence of events. But rather than continue to hijack Sargon's thread, I'll start a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 There is absolutely no way to know if something important was missed since any evidence was missing. In this case you only know that a problem actually occurred, as opposed to a fleet sighting that you don't care about, when you actually see the offending alien fleets. Since nobody saw any last turn there was no way to know how big of a deal it was. Even with everything working properly, fleet sightings are not a sure thing. Finding fleets behind your pickets does not mean that they went through your pickets. Now, having said that, I am almost positive that an enemy scout would not been in a position to probe my fleet structure if it had been detected and destroyed when it first appeared at the WP. Instead of seeing it at the WP, the fleet was able to do who knows what in the system before finally running into another fleet that destroyed it. And as long as I am on the soap box, I fail to see how a fleet can approach a WP, encounter my fleet on aggressive ROE's that is guarding the WP, fail to engage, warp, encounter yet another fleet on aggressive ROE's, fail to engage and then move to a planet in the system only to be destroyed by the fleets over the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 The most likely explanation for the "missed" ship in picketed space is a one-way warppoint! Happened to me a few times already (on both sides) Seeing a foreign Pathfinder over your colony in your home system with *all* outgoing wps in systems one out was quite a shock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SargonKingOfSlith Posted September 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 I don't think it was a one way jump. Ori has 2 fleets in my area. The first fleet sighting report for each fleet was [in-system move by empire # 304]. Each fleet showed up at a different warp point, and then warped to the next system with a [warp move by empire # 304] All that being said. I haven't heard from the owner of those fleets. (Although it has only been 1 day.) Does anybody know who is running the empire "ORI Ori # 304 'Infinite Vortex'"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Reviewing sensor scans for last cycle, Sitaran scientists noticed a flare of energy in subspace. It is theorised that a star in a weak area of space went nova, flooding subspace with ionised particles. This lead to short term interference with ship mounted scanners. Sensor readings now indicate that this interference has faded and scanners are now working correctly. (30 years of sci-fi allows me to justify anything.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Hmmm, following that train of thought, is it possible a empire tested a weapon of godlike strength, which created the weak space? Interesting. Lord Uriel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Hmmm, following that train of thought, is it possible a empire tested a weapon of godlike strength, which created the weak space? Interesting. Lord Uriel I deny any and all knowledge of such an event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Capitan Posted September 11, 2008 Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 The most likely explanation for the "missed" ship in picketed space is a one-way warppoint! Happened to me a few times already (on both sides) Seeing a foreign Pathfinder over your colony in your home system with *all* outgoing wps in systems one out was quite a shock If the sightings were working "normally", I would agree that the most likely explanation is a one-way. Actually, the most likely explanation would be the odd missed sighting that tends to happen from time to time. However, literally hundreds and hundreds of sightings didn't happen that should have. Because of this, I have no doubt that the ships that showed up behind Sargon's pickets slipped in due to the missed sightings. And with him not finding this out until a turn after the fact, the ships got another turn of "free" movement and warp point surveys. And once the warp point info is obtained, there's no way to truly take that info back short of changing the warp point numbers which may not even be reasonably possible. Another way to essentially rule out the one-way warp point theory is if Sargon has many, many systems explored in all directions and knows that there are no one-ways that lead to the systems in question. Is it possible that the one-way could have come from a system that is 20 to 30 systems away? I supose, but based on the tons of data I've collected, I've never seen such an instance and would say the odds of that being the case are about as close to zero as you could get. As an isolated event, one could argue that it's not such a big deal (except to the affected player). But if this issue continues to pop up from time to time, the results could be devastating. Fleet sightings and the subsequent triggering of battles (or not, as the case may be based on ROE/PAP settings) is the backbone of this game. Without it working properly and reliably, the game is completely broken. Oh yeah, to answer Sargon's question, I don't have any info about the Ori empire. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 The most likely explanation for the "missed" ship in picketed space is a one-way warppoint! Happened to me a few times already (on both sides) Seeing a foreign Pathfinder over your colony in your home system with *all* outgoing wps in systems one out was quite a shock Nope, I saw the fleet at each location. I am talking about seeing the enemy fleets and still failing to engage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Capitan Posted September 13, 2008 Report Share Posted September 13, 2008 Nope, I saw the fleet at each location. I am talking about seeing the enemy fleets and still failing to engage. And this is where my issue with the triggering of battles not being 100% computer moderated comes into play. If, for what ever reason, Pete is having to manually intervene during any part of the Sighting/ROE setting/PAP check/battle trigger sequence...well, he's only human and things can be missed from time to time. And the result is that players can gain in-game info they might have otherwise have been denied (due to being destroyed in the would-have-been battle) and once they have this info, it really can't be taken away. Refer to thread in Rules and Game Mechanics concerning the issue of 100% computer moderation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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