Colonial Attrition Survey ??????

[Tokmok]

Hello

 

I have just made my first couple of CSV´s

 

How should I read the Graphs

 

Example 1

 

Attrition rate: High

Atmosphere: -------------------------------------------------|

Ocean: ---------|

Temperature: --|

Gravity: ---------------------------------|

Axial Tilt: |

Lifeform (favorable) ..............................................|

 

Does my Lifeform rating almost cancel out the Atmosphere rating and then the so-called Very high Attrition comes from the rest that is the Ocean,Temp and Gravity added together. Which means that if I build a Domed city colony the attrition would be reduced a low attrition world.

 

 

How much does a very high reproduction rating help in cancelling a very high attrition???

Or is the reproductive rate already accounted for in the CSV??

 

 

Example 2:

 

Attrition: moderate

Atmosphere: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Ocean: ------------------|

Temperature: --|

Gravity: --------------------------------------|

Axial Tilt: ----------------------|

Terrain (favorable) ....................................|

Lifeform (favorable) ................................................................................

.........|

 

 

Here the Attrition rate is smaller but the bars are longer:

 

Again can I assume that the positive Lifeform and terrain bar almost (attriton-wise) cancel the atmosphere bar and the gravity bar out so that the

actual attrition mostly comes from ocean and axial tilt.

 

 

thanks Tokmok

[RTGPete]

The description for your attrition rate (such as "extremely low" or "very high") takes into account every factor, including terrain and lifeform among other things. The key thing to remember about the bars is that they are really just relative indicators. For example, if your atmosphere bar were really long, that's the first thing you should take care of. It's not the fixed length of the bar that matters (the lengths are just calculated based on the relative "weight" that the item in question, such as Atmosphere, has in the final attrition figure).

 

In your examples, the lifeform and terrain bars were already taken into account to get to the final attrition figure. Atmosphere still has a long bar because it contributes a lot to the final attrition figure--building a Domed City is a good way to counter the Atmosphere part.

 

It is entirely possible to have shorter bars over all with a higher attrition rate. This is because it could be that many factors contribute to the overall attrition, evening out the bar lengths because they all contribute in a more equal fashion (nothing standing out with a longer bar). The actual attrition figure could be high or low. Thus, counting tick marks on CSV results is not particularly important except perhaps to log as a planning tool.

 

When I look at a CSV result for one of my test empires, I look straight at whatever bar is longest. Generally that is Atmosphere or Temperature, as those are pretty common problems. I like Atmosphere-troubled worlds better than Temperature because Domed Cities can be obtained early on and though they are expensive, they are easy to build and don't consume Power once constructed.

[WKE235]

Of course, if your race starts on a HW with a 4.6 Gravity, those Gravity bars can be pretty bad, much worse than the atmosphere. So even when you invent Domed Cities and the "oh-my-god, it costs how much to build for 100 POP" Thermal devices that help take care of those two bars, Gravity can still leave most of the planets useless...

 

When you get Domed Cities, they have the greatest impact on lowering the attrition on worlds where most of the rate comes from Atmosphere. Say in Example 1, the Gravity bar was much lower but you still had a High attrition rate. Then a Domed City + Fluidic Conversion Plant for each 100 POP would lower both the Atmosphere bar (greatly) and Ocean bar (a bit). Add in a Colonial Training Center (raise Lifeform a bit) for each 100 POP and you could lower that High most of the way down (like Low or very low).

[Tokmok]

Thanks for the replies

 

BUT

 

 

 

will my growth-rate help to overcome some of the attrition?

 

Or is the growth-rate already accounted for when you do a CSV?

[RTGPete]

Growth rate doesn't figure into attrition calculations - it just affects the amount of population that will grow (independent of how many happen to die from attrition).

[woolfe99]

Thanks for the replies

 

BUT

 

 

 

will my growth-rate help to overcome some of the attrition?

 

Or is the growth-rate already accounted for when you do a CSV?

I think Pete's answer might leave you a tad confused, and Pete can correct me if I'm wrong. Growth rate does not factor into your CSV results. So YES, your growth rate will *offset* the amount of pop you lose due to attrition. A high growth rate helps a lot.

[RTGPete]

That's right - it doesn't figure into the calculations to determine attrition - just to offset whatever attrition you might happen to have. The +++'s you receive from purchasing a superior Reproduction rate during lifeform design do add to your Colonization Bonus, which is used during attrition calculations, but the growth itself (in population units) is just growth and doesn't have anything to do with the world attrition calculation itself.

[Tokmok]

Ok

 

But If you for the Superior reproduction both get an improved growth rate and

5 +´s to your Colonization bonus isn´t the abillity too good???

 

I mean both Photosyntesis and Superior Reproduction cost 400 points.

Or is the CB for Photosyntesis much bigger?

 

And question

 

How much attrition is for instance a high attrition-rating in actual numbers pr 100 Colonist?

 

It would be nice to know how much attrition a superior growth rate could handle?

 

For instance can I with a superior growth rate expect the growth to offset the attrition if I decide to colonize a moderate-attrition world and not build any installations to reduce attrition??

 

thanks

[RTGPete]

Ok

 

But If you for the Superior reproduction both get an improved growth rate and

5 +´s to your Colonization bonus isn´t the abillity too good???

 

I mean both Photosyntesis and Superior Reproduction cost 400 points.

Or is the CB for Photosyntesis much bigger?

 

And question

 

How much attrition is for instance a high attrition-rating in actual numbers pr 100 Colonist?

 

It would be nice to know how much attrition a superior growth rate could handle?

 

For instance can I with a superior growth rate expect the growth to offset the attrition if I decide to colonize a moderate-attrition world and not build any installations to reduce attrition??

 

thanks

For almost everything in the lifeform design chart, you get the +++'s or ---'s and that's it. Reproduction is unusual in that it gives you two things: colonization bonus and actual pop growth. It's a pretty good buy for that reason. The reason you might purchase Photosynthesis is that the colonization bonuses stack with the ones from Reproduction area (they stack from every feature, naturally). This gives you the ability to buy both and get a nice colonization bonus.

 

Since reproduction is percentage-based, it can overcome attrition but I wouldn't depend on it as the attrition ranges get pretty wide. Other players here can probably give you the best feel for how many pop units you can expect to lose at the various attrition groupings.

[AKO]

"Almost ideal" means already 3% attrition losses per cycle, in our case. No way to offset this by reproduction.

[woolfe99]

Ok

 

But If you for the Superior reproduction both get an improved growth rate and

5 +´s to your Colonization bonus isn´t the abillity too good???

 

I mean both Photosyntesis and Superior Reproduction cost 400 points.

Or is the CB for Photosyntesis much bigger?

 

And question

 

How much attrition is for instance a high attrition-rating in actual numbers pr 100 Colonist?

 

It would be nice to know how much attrition a superior growth rate could handle?

 

For instance can I with a superior growth rate expect the growth to offset the attrition if I decide to colonize a moderate-attrition world and not build any installations to reduce attrition??

 

thanks

For almost everything in the lifeform design chart, you get the +++'s or ---'s and that's it. Reproduction is unusual in that it gives you two things: colonization bonus and actual pop growth. It's a pretty good buy for that reason. The reason you might purchase Photosynthesis is that the colonization bonuses stack with the ones from Reproduction area (they stack from every feature, naturally). This gives you the ability to buy both and get a nice colonization bonus.

 

Since reproduction is percentage-based, it can overcome attrition but I wouldn't depend on it as the attrition ranges get pretty wide. Other players here can probably give you the best feel for how many pop units you can expect to lose at the various attrition groupings.

OK, now *I'm* confused. I thought that a CB means a lowering of attrition. I further thought that the "CB" you get for reproduction is an exception to that rule because it gives higher growth to offset attritition but does NOT lower attrition.

 

Now this statement is confusing:

 

"Reproduction is unusual in that it gives you two things: colonization bonus and actual pop growth. It's a pretty good buy for that reason. "

 

I think what you mean to say here is that reproduction just gives 1 thing: pop growth, and the in the case of colonies, that pop growth has the added benefit of *offsetting* attrition. Am I right?

 

To the original poster:

 

You should know that various +'s in the lifeform charts do not always equate that well from one feature to the next. For example, I have -4 DB for my lifeform type (Avian) and +2 DB for Advanced Respiration. Yet my DB bar is like 90% back from the mediun. You wouldn't think a net -2DB would produce that high a penalty, unless the DB factor from your lifeform type is weighted more heavily.

 

Also, a +3 CB from a feature like Advanced Respiratory works differently than a +3 CB from something like Constitution. My understanding is that the Respirator gets a large bonus in eliminating attrition from atmopshere, but nothing else. The high CON race will get a smaller bonus that affects attrition from *all* sources. So it's kind of apples to oranges.

 

Take the various indicators in those charts as being very rough estimates, and take them with a grain of salt.

 

- woolfe

[MadMartinB]

Ok

 

But If you for the Superior reproduction both get an improved growth rate and

5 +´s to your Colonization bonus isn´t the abillity too good???

 

I mean both Photosyntesis and Superior Reproduction cost 400 points.

Or is the CB for Photosyntesis much bigger?

 

And question

 

How much attrition is for instance a high attrition-rating in actual numbers pr 100 Colonist?

 

It would be nice to know how much attrition a superior growth rate could handle?

 

For instance can I with a superior growth rate expect the growth to offset the attrition if I decide to colonize a moderate-attrition world and not build any installations to reduce attrition??

 

thanks

For almost everything in the lifeform design chart, you get the +++'s or ---'s and that's it. Reproduction is unusual in that it gives you two things: colonization bonus and actual pop growth. It's a pretty good buy for that reason. The reason you might purchase Photosynthesis is that the colonization bonuses stack with the ones from Reproduction area (they stack from every feature, naturally). This gives you the ability to buy both and get a nice colonization bonus.

 

Since reproduction is percentage-based, it can overcome attrition but I wouldn't depend on it as the attrition ranges get pretty wide. Other players here can probably give you the best feel for how many pop units you can expect to lose at the various attrition groupings.

OK, now *I'm* confused. I thought that a CB means a lowering of attrition. I further thought that the "CB" you get for reproduction is an exception to that rule because it gives higher growth to offset attritition but does NOT lower attrition.

 

Now this statement is confusing:

 

"Reproduction is unusual in that it gives you two things: colonization bonus and actual pop growth. It's a pretty good buy for that reason. "

 

I think what you mean to say here is that reproduction just gives 1 thing: pop growth, and the in the case of colonies, that pop growth has the added benefit of *offsetting* attrition. Am I right?

 

To the original poster:

 

You should know that various +'s in the lifeform charts do not always equate that well from one feature to the next. For example, I have -4 DB for my lifeform type (Avian) and +2 DB for Advanced Respiration. Yet my DB bar is like 90% back from the mediun. You wouldn't think a net -2DB would produce that high a penalty, unless the DB factor from your lifeform type is weighted more heavily.

 

Also, a +3 CB from a feature like Advanced Respiratory works differently than a +3 CB from something like Constitution. My understanding is that the Respirator gets a large bonus in eliminating attrition from atmopshere, but nothing else. The high CON race will get a smaller bonus that affects attrition from *all* sources. So it's kind of apples to oranges.

 

Take the various indicators in those charts as being very rough estimates, and take them with a grain of salt.

 

- woolfe

Wolfee (Mr. GSL :-)

 

In answer:

 

reproduction has a positive effect v. attrition. It offsets some of the bad effects of the world. You then get population growth. Seperate.

[hobknob]

The very short answer to the following question " will growth offset attrition?"

 

Not really unless your colony is rather small and you are only losing 1 or 2 pop per turn. A 2500 pop colony grows 3 for me and even with very low attrition you will likely be losing 1-2% of total pop. Until you get some advanced installations you shouldn't count on growth doing much for you. For smaller colonies ie., <40 you can probaably expect growth to offset attrition in most cases.

[woolfe99]

The very short answer to the following question " will growth offset attrition?"

 

Not really unless your colony is rather small and you are only losing 1 or 2 pop per turn. A 2500 pop colony grows 3 for me and even with very low attrition you will likely be losing 1-2% of total pop. Until you get some advanced installations you shouldn't count on growth doing much for you. For smaller colonies ie., <40 you can probaably expect growth to offset attrition in most cases.

I have a "very low" attrition colony and "excellent repro." The colony has 2800 pop. I "net" out 6 growth per turn. Can't say what I would net with higher attrition rates...

[woolfe99]

Ok

 

But If you for the Superior reproduction both get an improved growth rate and

5 +´s to your Colonization bonus isn´t the abillity too good???

 

I mean both Photosyntesis and Superior Reproduction cost 400 points.

Or is the CB for Photosyntesis much bigger?

 

And question

 

How much attrition is for instance a high attrition-rating in actual numbers pr 100 Colonist?

 

It would be nice to know how much attrition a superior growth rate could handle?

 

For instance can I with a superior growth rate expect the growth to offset the attrition if I decide to colonize a moderate-attrition world and not build any installations to reduce attrition??

 

thanks

For almost everything in the lifeform design chart, you get the +++'s or ---'s and that's it. Reproduction is unusual in that it gives you two things: colonization bonus and actual pop growth. It's a pretty good buy for that reason. The reason you might purchase Photosynthesis is that the colonization bonuses stack with the ones from Reproduction area (they stack from every feature, naturally). This gives you the ability to buy both and get a nice colonization bonus.

 

Since reproduction is percentage-based, it can overcome attrition but I wouldn't depend on it as the attrition ranges get pretty wide. Other players here can probably give you the best feel for how many pop units you can expect to lose at the various attrition groupings.

OK, now *I'm* confused. I thought that a CB means a lowering of attrition. I further thought that the "CB" you get for reproduction is an exception to that rule because it gives higher growth to offset attritition but does NOT lower attrition.

 

Now this statement is confusing:

 

"Reproduction is unusual in that it gives you two things: colonization bonus and actual pop growth. It's a pretty good buy for that reason. "

 

I think what you mean to say here is that reproduction just gives 1 thing: pop growth, and the in the case of colonies, that pop growth has the added benefit of *offsetting* attrition. Am I right?

 

To the original poster:

 

You should know that various +'s in the lifeform charts do not always equate that well from one feature to the next. For example, I have -4 DB for my lifeform type (Avian) and +2 DB for Advanced Respiration. Yet my DB bar is like 90% back from the mediun. You wouldn't think a net -2DB would produce that high a penalty, unless the DB factor from your lifeform type is weighted more heavily.

 

Also, a +3 CB from a feature like Advanced Respiratory works differently than a +3 CB from something like Constitution. My understanding is that the Respirator gets a large bonus in eliminating attrition from atmopshere, but nothing else. The high CON race will get a smaller bonus that affects attrition from *all* sources. So it's kind of apples to oranges.

 

Take the various indicators in those charts as being very rough estimates, and take them with a grain of salt.

 

- woolfe

Wolfee (Mr. GSL :-)

 

In answer:

 

reproduction has a positive effect v. attrition. It offsets some of the bad effects of the world. You then get population growth. Seperate.

Well Pete said this earlier in the thread:

 

"Growth rate doesn't figure into attrition calculations - it just affects the amount of population that will grow (independent of how many happen to die from attrition)."

 

Then this later in the thread:

 

"That's right - it doesn't figure into the calculations to determine attrition - just to offset whatever attrition you might happen to have. The +++'s you receive from purchasing a superior Reproduction rate during lifeform design do add to your Colonization Bonus, which is used during attrition calculations, but the growth itself (in population units) is just growth and doesn't have anything to do with the world attrition calculation itself."

 

OK, I think his second comment clarifies that you are correct. In which case, the original poster's comment appears to be valid. If reproduction in effect reduces attrition *and* gives pop growth that further helps offset attrition, it seems like an awfully good buy. Cool. No regrets here.

 

BTW, that's Mr. GSL, Esq. to you sir.

 

- woolfe