SargonKingOfSlith Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I wanted to add my own comments to Locklyn’s rant about information disclosure from RTG. But it doesn’t really belong in the other thread, so here it is: I’m pretty good at making decisions. But the quality of a decision is directly proportional to the quality of information I have available to me when I make that decision. Sometimes, in business as well as other aspects of life, a decision must be made quickly whether or not accurate information is available. So far, my decisions on ship design and Formation Battle Plans have been terrible. In fact, I wouldn’t call them decisions at all. I would call them guesses. Here is what I need to make informed decisions about ship design, and formation battle plans: ·The ANZ results should include numerical strength ratings for all ship components. ·We need to know in specific detail how these strength ratings affect fleet characteristics such as fire control. ·We need to know how deployment location affects these calculations. ·The FOB results should give a summary of these calculations for a fleet. ·The DD results should give a summary of these calculations for a ship design. I don’t want to play a game based on guesses. I want to be able to make decisions based on accurate information. I don’t want occasional hints such as “You may want to place a few screening ships at deployment locations 3.” I want the above information so that I can make my own decisions about deployment location. This game is complex enough that it doesn’t need to be a “game of discovery”. I hate games of discovery. I far prefer games of strategy. I also want to say that I am happy with the game so far. The production aspect is great (although we should have been given the resource yield – mine output formula rather than having to “discover” it.) I know that RTG staff are working hard and making steady progress; this is not a slam against you. But I want to make it absolutely clear, that I need this information before I get into a major shooting match with another player. So far RTG seems to be on track for that deadline, at least for me. It appears that you have already missed that deadline for some players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Here is what I need to make informed decisions about ship design, and formation battle plans:·The ANZ results should include numerical strength ratings for all ship components. ·We need to know in specific detail how these strength ratings affect fleet characteristics such as fire control. ·We need to know how deployment location affects these calculations. ·The FOB results should give a summary of these calculations for a fleet. ·The DD results should give a summary of these calculations for a ship design. Too much information is bad, dropping many game systems down to the pure-calculation-and-no-imagination level. Especially in a game like SNROTE, which covers a huge scope, it is flat out impossible to provide every conceivable detail on all possible topics. However, I'm constantly working to add more detail to a variety of reports. When I add details, I often take heat for not providing that detail sooner. Sigh. I just keep on plugging away, and don't worry too much about it. It's a big game. I'll try to add more detail to FOB, DD etc. I'd like to see FOB's replace tiny, otherwise useless test battles, as the battles eat up processing time when I'd rather get those turns out to you. That means more numbers in the FOB's, which is fine by me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Sargon- That pretty much sums it up I would say. I have found myself building large, at least for me, ships just to have them get completely wiped in the first battle. Then a couple of turns later there is some more information published somewhere that completely invalidates the gueses I was forced to make. This isn't information learned through my own combat mind you. If it were, I would feel the cost well spent. wash...rinse..repeat... 1.5M ton Star Cruisers are not small throw away ships used for testing. They eat up about an entire turns production or more all to be kissed away a couple of tuns later. And as long as I am on the soap box... It is frustrating to run a complex empire just to have stupid fleet admirals that can't make even the simplest decisions. ie we have so little control over what these fleets do it is just a guessing game. Also the idea of no retreat or trying to run away is bugging me too. stepping down now... Back to your regualrly scheduled conversations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 /agree Sargon, Hobknob Guessing at the tech tree and the map is already too much guessing for my tastes Thanks Pete for busting your a$$ on the battle stuff. I'd hate to pay $1,000+ dollars on a game where you lostkey battles because of bad guessing. The recent revelations on fire control are amazingly helpful....and something I doubt we ever oculd have 'figured out' in hundreds of battle tests. I haven't seen anything remotely unfair about not disclosing things thus far...but then again...how would anyone know! :lol: I trust Pete. Thats I can really do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I'd like to personally add one further thing to this thread..... Please think of 'all' the players who don't read the board! We desparately need the rules revision and updated supplements. In the mean time we could do with an expanded GM notes on every turn. Please. Mx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 That thought is well unthinkable Ur Lord!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 The boards here is the official point for announcements. I try to post updates on the turns as an extra reminder - sometimes there's nothing in a turn, other times lots of upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 One of these days (after turns are due), I'll consolidate all of the new information posted here and ask for it to be added to the sticky. Something anyone could help with is doing a cut/paste of all major game announcements made on our turns as some of the new players don't have the benefit of seeing these announcements. I've been meaning to do it for my own reference and wouldnt mind sharing with everyone else. These are things the player community can do to allow Pete to focus on enhancing the space combat/tech component information. An argument could be made -- 'hey - shouldn't Pete be doing this?" My answer: I'm comfortable with my turns at $6.00 a shot, tyvm, and I don't mind lending a helping hand to do something so simple to alleviate some of the menial stuff a 2-man business has to do. Besides, I'm a nice guy. The game is clearly evolving in a positive direction and I think its quite obvious (and accepted) that many features of the game have yet to be truly tested -- which is expected for a game of such ambition. I can't imagine anyone would play this game without trying to sort through the boards for more info about the game.....and its sort of frightening to think about what my understanding of the game would be like if I refused to look through these posts Granted, there is some roleplaying/smacktalk fluff to wade through (I am partly responsible of course hence my willingness to help sort things out as I am probably in the minority of people who bother to read every single word posted on these boards...so it won't be much of a hassle for me once I have a couple of free hours since I pretty much remember where all the juicy info is already :lol: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Eternus, everything up to August 4 was posted by crossroads on the pinned Rules Addenda Notes thread. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I know I've been working on something a weeee bit more detailed Organized by topic. Includes player provided information and discoveries (with reference in okmst cases)...not just Pete posts. Includes both boards....and the Yahoo! forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 That would be great Eternus. I know when I started this game a few months ago I read everything I could find on the boards but it would have been easier of most of the information was in one place. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Well, this may be the official place to find information, but I personnaly know players who don't have access to the board from either work or home. For those folks there needs to be a solution too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Well, this may be the official place to find information, but I personnaly know players who don't have access to the board from either work or home. For those folks there needs to be a solution too. If they're submitting their turns by email, they should have access to these boards....? Those who cannot use email for turn submissions (and there are very, very few of those) are the rare exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Well, this may be the official place to find information, but I personnaly know players who don't have access to the board from either work or home. For those folks there needs to be a solution too. If they're submitting their turns by email, they should have access to these boards....? Those who cannot use email for turn submissions (and there are very, very few of those) are the rare exceptions. Actually Pete that's not true There are many companies that will allow e-mail access, but stop internet access. For example, even whilst I have internet access at work and can see this board, I am blocked from all the Yahoo sites and was for the original board. It's why I made the plea. For some, home internet access is very limited and whilst e-mail may be cheap, good surfing isn't....... Regards Mx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaseDragon Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 All the arguments about technology ratings and how they match up versus another Empire's technology is assuming that technology by the same name is the same. It could be argued that Titanium Composite Armor made by the Shadowlords Of Lolth IS NOT the same as Titanium Composite Armor made by Everlasting Spawn. They are completely different lifeforms (Reptile vs. Plant). Your scientist could conduct LFE exercises from now to the day they die and still never be able to predict how they will affect the ships built by another lifeform. I know that explanation will not justify the vagueness in the rules. I just love the game and don't want to have it deteriorate into an argument about the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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