Saved set-up points? How many?

[ShadowKitsune]

Laserwolf -

 

Here you go -

After 39 Turns (19.5 months)

- the Brainiacs would still have their 25/25 techs, but be 9 Turns into 4th Gen instead of 6.

- the Ordinaries would still have their 36/42 techs, and be 3 Turns into 4th Gen.

- the Boxarocks would have 38 2nd Gen and 25 3rd Gen techs with 3 turns left on 3rd Gen research.

 

After 42 Turns (21 months)

- the Brainiacs would still have their 25/25 techs, but be 12 Turns into 4th Gen instead of 6.

- the Ordinaries would still have their 36/42 techs, but be 6 Turns into 4th Gen instead of 3.

- the Boxarocks would have 38 2nd Gen and 52 3rd Gen techs with no turns worth of 4th Gen research.

 

After 120 Turns (60 Months = 5 Years)

- the Brainiacs would have 25 Techs in 2nd, 3rd and 4th Gen and be 50 turns into 5th Gen (of 80: 62.5%).

- the Ordinaries would have 36 2nd Gen, 42 3rd Gen, 25 4rd Gen and be 36 turns into 5th Gen (of 96: 37.5%).

- the Boxarocks would have 38 2nd Gen, 52 3rd Gen, 46 4th Gen (points run out here) and be 22 turns into 5th Gen (of 112: 19.6%).

 

After 150 Turns (75 Months)

- the Brainiacs would have 25 Techs in 2nd, 3rd, 4th Gen and 5th Gen while preparing to start 6th Gen.

- the Ordinaries would have 36 2nd Gen, 42 3rd Gen, 25 4rd Gen and be 66 turns into 5th Gen (of 96: 68.75%).

- the Boxarocks would have 38 2nd Gen, 52 3rd Gen, 46 4th Gen and be 52 turns into 5th Gen (of 112: 46.4%).

 

So after 6 years and 3 Months - the Brainiacs have a significant scientific edge that they will be able to maintain, as opposed to the 4 turn, 8 turn and 16 turn edges that they briefly enjoyed during the previous tech transitions.

 

I hope I answered your question.

[hobknob]

Do you have any data to support the idea of doubling the research required? My own data seems to indicate soemthing more along the line of increasing by 50% so it would go 8/12/18/27 etc. for the smart guys and 10/15/23/35 etc. for the normal folks.

 

Any way you look at it, the payoff for high intelligence will be years down the road if ever.

[octagon999]

But if the boxarocks ran into the brainiacs, at say, turn 30, with specific techs researched, such as warp drives, engines, a couple trees of weapons, armor, etc, and piled a fleet on them, they could be hitting a 2nd/3rd Gen brainy racial fleet with a solid 4th Gen fleet.

 

No guarrantees for success, but at that point, they would have an advantage I think.

 

It would all come down to timing. As you point out, the longer things go, the more the advantage shifts to the brainiacs.

 

Hopefully the brains could convince a lucky boxarocks that they are worth more alive than dead, OR, they have been genuinely smart and been preparing their defenses all along for just such a possibility and wax the predator at the incoming warp point.

[EternusIV]

Yeah - its NOT doubling

[ShadowKitsune]

You are right Octagon, depending on when (or if) the Boxarocks met the Brainiacs the Braniacs could have a fairly solid fleet when compared to the Boxarocks. OTOH, since the Boxarocks have more Techs available to them, they may have something devastating to Brainiacs. 4th Gen Heat Shields won't help against 3rd Gen Cold Weapons, ya know?

 

I used doubling in my example for two reasons: [1] easier to illustrate my point and [2] easier numbers to work with. Since we really don't know if -

[a] all technologies of a similar type cost the same amount of research points;

what any of the actual research values are;

[c] what the actual Research Point production is per RC;

[d] what the reduction formula is; or

[e] at what level do the saved Research Points cease being usable.

 

Even if research is approximately a 50% step function, instead of a 100% step function, the ratios remain the same - 11:12:13 or 5:6:7 (as Laserwolf suggested). You guys are good enough spreadsheet jockeys to set up the formulas. :lol:

 

The saved point races are going to be "ahead" of the "smart" race, technologically, for years. The situation only becomes worse if the Boxarocks used the 740 points they gained by being "stupid" to enhance themselves for colonization or combat, then they're only slightly behind the Ordinaries research wise but have more flexibility in other areas.

[hobknob]

One of the points that I think you also have to remember is that you can only buy so big with points. The empire with 2000 points and not much intelligence will have a lot of low level stuff and a very broad base of tech to choose from but they will not be able to compete past 4th Gen items with anybody else. The smart guys may not have as much stuff, but their single Mk V weapons system will likely shredd the 4th Gen defenses of the dumb guys.

 

OTOH this all will be a mute point if you can team up with a complimentary position that will fill some of your weknesses.

 

The sooner a player can get to 5th Gen tech the sooner they will start to stand alone and widen the gap between themselves and every position with a bunch of points to spend.

[lugal]

What about racial bonuses from tech improvements made thru research. Let say I'm a Ordanary who spends the newly aquired points for higher intelligence? I may have the cybernetic implants that give me highened senses. Just trying to make things more difficult. Even the Boxarocks could close the gap while the Brianiacs just stay the same.

[Moonshadow]

What if the Brainiacs, took a few negatives so they have about 600 SRP?

 

 

Moonshadow

[ShadowKitsune]

Very true Hobnob -

However, if the Boxarocks focused on a couple areas of technology using Slot 1 to ramp their way through a couple of 4th Gen technologies, they may be able to start 5th Gen Tech long before the Brainiacs can. That will get the Boxarocks a narrower, but longer lasting high tech edge.

 

Example - Thermal Lance Tech -

 

You could Slot 1 -

1. Light Thermal Lance

2. Medium Thermal Lance

3. Heavy Thermal Lance

4. Spinal Mount Thermal Lance

 

Four turns and we have a pretty big Plasma weapon we can build. Just to add some hate into the mix, let's say the Spinal Mount version needs Advanced Steel and Advanced Electronics. That would take ...

 

5. Improved Steel

6. Improved Electronics

7. Advanced Steel

8. Advanced Electronics

 

Hmm ... since I have Advanced Electronics and Computers are made solely from electronics ... maybe I should improve ye olde Computers.

 

9. Mk II Computer System

10. Mk III Computer System

11. Mk IV Computer System

 

... and with my Advanced Steel I should chase Armor

 

12. Titanium Armor

13. Super Titanium Armor

14. Ultra Titanium Armor

 

In the time it takes the Brainiacs to reach Medium Thermal Lance, the Boxarocks have a harder hitting (maybe longer ranged) weapon, a better targetting computer and better armor to defend themselves with. Results -

 

Brainiacs Central Defense command:

Boxarocks Military Core command:

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Lugal -

I don't think that Genetic Engineering garners you that much to adapt your race. I believe that the Yahoo!Groups list said that you get ~125 points. It may have been 150. Regardless, its not enough to bump up your Intelligence a level.

 

I haven't made it far enough up the Tech Tree to tell you what cybernetics gets you. It may just make your "workers" more efficient, like a 5% mining bonus or something.

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Moonshadow -

If the Brainiacs did take 600 points worth of flaws (like Awkward, Small and Poor Reproduction), they would be able to keep up with the Boxarocks for a while, but have Colonization issues to contend with that the Boxarocks don't.

[ShadowKitsune]

The Saved Point Paradox is that it seems you're smarter if your race is stupid, since 1 SRP = 1 RC for one turn worth of output.

[President Guztov]

You bring up a VERY good point. We are all assuming that 1 RC gives you 1 RP.. but nowhere have i ever heard the GM's say this was the case. What if the penalty for being boxarocks was that your RC's only produced a fraction of the norm? Using average intel as your baseline

is could concieveably be that anything above average intel would give you slightly more RP's per RC ie 1.1 for AA 1.2 for superior and 1.5 for phenomenal where as below would net you

.8 and them slow ones a measely .5.

[ShadowKitsune]

Actually, I think Pete or Russ did say something to the effect of 1 SRP = 1 RC for a turn. It was on the old Bulletin Board and the search engine stinks on it, so it will be a real be-yatch to hunt it down.

[Laserwolf]

Shadow,

Don't forget that your Adv Electronics needs Adv materials to make...

[ShadowKitsune]

Very True Laserwolf, but the Boxarocks are still way ahead of the Brainiacs, even if they have to spend an extra 6-8 turns building up the components for Advanced Electronics.

[Kurassier]

For what it is worth, my race would classify as the 'brainiacs' and I only received 1 tech free from start up points. Since then, in 23 turns I have received 43 tech advances or 1.87 per turn.

 

sabeli