EternusIV Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Just curious. Had an interesting discussion about this at lab. Fermi Principle dominate? Or do any of you guys have proof? Personally, I think we are alone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Aleen Empire Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Hmmm a very good question, but one must think in the vastness of space that there must be other life out there. Now out of those planets that support life, how many of them actually have intelligent life that is also looking up asking these same questions. Still of that small group a even smaller group I would guess is out exploring space. Now a race that has made it into space and has the tech to actually travel between the stars in a viable timeframe...must be far above us and would view us as we view the apes on our own world. Being different, primitive in both culture and technology, plus our great zest for control and strife...one would have to approach us in secret and quietly. Time will only tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted June 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Cool link CE'Keen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Wasn't it Sagan who basically said that due to the vast nature of the Universe that probability would indicate that intelligent life must exist on other planets. Of course, my question has always been: Would we recognize it as intelligent life? M2CW, -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted June 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Well kind of like in Ender's Game where the hive race didn't recognize us 'intelligent' because they communicated instantaneously and never understood our signals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Benthis Collective Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Wasn't it Sagan who basically said that due to the vast nature of the Universe that probability would indicate that intelligent life must exist on other planets. Of course, my question has always been: Would we recognize it as intelligent life? M2CW, -SK Good point Ken. Epistemology has undergone noticable shifts in the history of humanity. We in the technological West experience the world differently than do primative oral folks. That is a cultural impact on perception. Add to that the impact of a different biology and possibly even a different chemistry and that is just way out weird. Then there are things like the moon that have so tremendously impacted our psyche. That is a relatively unique condition. Scientist know water is plentiful in the Universe. It isn't like in the 70s where we thought water rare. My guess is there is plenty of life, but very little intelligence. Then again, quamtum theories are getting stranger and stranger. Traveling through space seems hard, but maybe there is an infinite amount of whens we could go to--or even parallel universes. Heck maybe the omniverse is filled with an infinite number of human permutations? On that note I hightly recommend a series of books: HOMINIDES, HUMANS, and HYBRIDS. They are really cool stories about Neanderthal scientists who make a hole from their alternate universe to ours. Really head trippy stuff. Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted June 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 It seems I am alone in 'we are alone' camp : If ET Life was so abundant, then why don't we see more evidence of it? For the life of me I can't figure out what IR couldn't pick up in our local system if a vessel showed up out of nowhere....we would certainly detect rifts in space-time...well unless they backtracked and erased it...who knows :lol: I certainly agree that there are plenty of earth-like planets out there. I suppose that other cultures simply haven't developed technology that emit E-M waves or even SLT travel (even with SLT travel, a culture thats been around for 10 million years would have plenty of time to visist us in that time) Maybe they have and we were too imbecele to recognize it? A lab partner of mine is convinced we've been visited and I think he even fears that we will be invaded in our lifetime. I sort of shook my head understandingly...but it was hard not to laugh at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixitixl Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 An interesting theory that I heard recently as the possible reason that we have not detected intelligent life in space was the nature of Gamma Ray Burst. Since they have been studying them, they have discovered on average one Gamma Ray Burst per day in a different area of space. The amount of energy released from a Gamma Ray Bursts in incredibly powerful and happen over a large area of space. Unfortunately I cannot remember the size, but an event like that would not have to take place in our one system to superheat the Earth. Some scientists are speculating that since there happens to be some many going on all over the universe, the Gamma Ray Bursts are actually sterilizing large sections of the universe. That drops the percentage of us finding other life in the universe considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 A lab partner of mine is convinced we've been visited and I think he even fears that we will be invaded in our lifetime. I sort of shook my head understandingly...but it was hard not to laugh at him. Maybe he's talked to one of the 4400 that are coming..... I for one agree with you, I think it is just us. I am certainly willing to accept the premise that I may be wrong. What's that quote? "If we are alone, seems like an awful waste of space" Contact I believe was the movie. Even though I don't believe it's wasted, as it is pretty awesome just looking at a clear night sky!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octagon999 Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Having seen an (eventually explained) unusual night time phenomenon (phenomena?) I won't ever make fun of anyone's UFO story thats for sure. Well, unless they get too whacko. (e.g. Whitley Strieber) Some strange stuff goes on out theah. And when I told some coworkers about what I saw, I heard some very interesting stories from a couple of normal, well-balanced, professional, married, etc people with no interest in fabricating or lying. Makes ya think. Tom PS But I still vote we are alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 I hate to bring up scifi to make a point, but I thought of one of the Foundation books when I read some of these posts. Seldon explains it is possible for him to visit twenty-five million planets and meet each of the forty billion souls in existance, but it is impractical. The reason I mention this is that if my basic astronomy is accurate we're nowhere near anything astronmically interesting. So, if you're an advanced alien species (and what's to say they're not in a stone age, just figuring out fire), where would you go? There is so much to see out there, why would you go to Timbuktu of the Milky Way? I personally like to think that we are not alone out there, but it is verrry unlikely that they are popping in for a visit. Thoughts on invasion? Why would they? Is there a shortage of planets in the Milky Way? Lord Uriel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaseDragon Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 I guess I'll throw in my own personal theory. The "Missing Link" so to speak was actually a genetically altered mutation to allow alien life to inhabit this planet. After travelling lifetimes in space and consequently causing their bodies to atrophy to the point that they had almost no bodies at all, the promise of a new beginning required that they infuse some new "physical" DNA into their ailing forms. The logical choice would of course be Apes. In addition, being primitive in our conception, the aliens moved on in an attempt to locate other habitable planets. Later, when we detonated the atomic bombs in World War II, the aliens returned to determine our relative threat given our incredible leap in technology. (Hence the large number of UFO sightings during this period). The manipulation of matter at the atomic level is truly amazing and can lead to replication of stellar phenomenon such as Black Hole creation (which has already been done for a few nanoseconds in a vaccuum chamber). With alternative power sources (which we haven't discovered yet) wormholes become possible and Einstein's theory that matter can't travel faster than light can be circumvented. A radical and unsubstantiated theory but still not impossible. I don't assume that this is the only theory and in fact have other explanations (derived through no real evidence as well). For example, a second reason for the UFO sighting surge after World War II: Manufacturing metals in space allow for an extremely dense structure with relatively little weight so in theory we could have made the UFO's and their sightings could have been those ships being tested. We became aware of space travel publically when the moon walk was shown on TV but to get to that point there had to be years of research and testing which were done secretly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 While this may be utter hubris, we may be the most advanced beings in our area of the universe. I'm not saying that we are the most advanced beings in the entire universe, just the nearby parts. How many planetary systems other than our own have we found? Six? Seven? Out of how many stars 'explored' via telescopes? I am always amused by people who say things like: "If they are out there, why haven't they contacted/visited us?" Here are a few reasons why: 1. Their technology is different than ours. We're listening to the radio waves of the universe expecting other intelligent life to be sending radio waves saying the mathematical equivalent of "Hi there!" Of course, they could be monitoring some other form of radiation wondering why nobody is sending them a similar signal. 2. They don't have the funding. You laugh, but what has this planet accomplished as far as space travel goes in the last 40 years? We put people on the moon in the 60s and in 'long term' habitats in the 70s. We've thrown more unmanned probes around, but only to near-by planetary bodies. If we wanted to travel to a near-by system, even at the speed of light, it would cost billions and take decades. Other than to prove that we could do it, why go? Why spend that much money on such a project when we could spend it on things that will help us in a shorter time frame? (Don't get me wrong, I think it would be beneficial in the long run, but I know that I am in the minority.) 3. They are naturally incurious. We assume that they are as curious about life in the universe as we are. What if they are not? Or what if it is a culturally intolerant concept? Not so long ago, to even think that the Earth was not the center of the universe was a heretical crime on this world. I'm sure that you can think of other reasons that they wouldn't do it. FWIW, -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 ShadowKitsune, I completly agree with you on your points. I had considered adding a comment on budget restraints, but I figured there would plenty of commentary why this was just plain wrong. I do have a question of this discussion though. Why would apes be the logical choice? And why does there have to be a higher power involved in our existence? Why does there have to be a deity or an alien superpower responsible for our creation, that chose our species above all the others on the planet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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