From Panzers to Planet Crackers

[Krysia's Krusader]

Hiya,

 

A year ago, I came accross the Supernova website, because I was looking for an, empire building grand strategic space game. However, I was immediately drawn to the picture of the 'Panzerkampfwagen VI' on the RTG homepage (I always loved panzers), and started exploring what that was about. I've been playing Victory! ever since this time.

 

Now then, Victory! is really a wonderful and well thought out game. I'm starting to get the irk, for something a little slower paced, though (In Victory!, you really have to be on the ball, else your in for an early exit of the game, and a trouncing in the later stages, if you don't see and prepare for what's coming.). I see that some of you Victory! players, are also playing in Supernova. Can you give me some kind of idea about a few things?

 

Since this is an open ended game, and I see (I've downloaded and scanned through the rulebook) that one can give as many orders as he/she is willing to pay for; about how long (real life time) will it take (about) before I get clobbered by someone who is more technologically advanced and/or has deeper pockets?

 

Is it realistic to assume that I can coexist peacefully with my neighbours, and engage in econmic developement and technological exchanges - or do I have to start warmongering from day one? Because if I don't, I'll just become an easy acquisition for someone else's empire?

 

How does the general game develope? I think one of the best ever (space empire building) games I've played, has been Space Empires IV (by Malfador Machinations). Is Supernova any where near the same, in how an (new) empire starts and develops? (I know it's a tough question, but it would give me some kind of idea, what I'm getting into, instead of playing for a year or so, and then finding out I invested all my time into something I don't personally enjoy.)

 

Main reason, I'm asking, is that I'm so impressed with Russ, and with how Victory! is handled, that if it's (Supernova) to my intial expectations (liking) - I'd rather try the 'big old grand space game' here first, than go somehwere else.

 

Thanks and regards,

Krysia's Krusader

[ali-t-akua]

Since this is an open ended game, and I see (I've downloaded and scanned through the rulebook) that one can give as many orders as he/she is willing to pay for; about how long (real life time) will it take (about) before I get clobbered by someone who is more technologically advanced and/or has deeper pockets?

 

Is it realistic to assume that I can coexist peacefully with my neighbours, and engage in econmic developement and technological exchanges - or do I have to start warmongering from day one? Because if I don't, I'll just become an easy acquisition for someone else's empire?

 

In brief, this game does operate at a slower pace. I have been here for 15 months and only recently met my first empire. It is possible for you to run into warmongers but it is far more likely you will meet empire builders who are interested in trade and mutual protection.

[Clan Elder 'Keen]

"... about how long (real life time) will it take (about) before I get clobbered by someone who is more technologically advanced and/or has deeper pockets?"

 

Your nearest neighbors (who start the same time as you) are most likely 5-10 jumps away. So if you explore aggressively you will start meeting people relatively early, perhaps within the first 20 turns. What happens after that depends quite a bit on whether you or your neighbor started with SRPs to buy tech. If you are worried about getting clobbered, start the game with at least a couple hundred SRPs, and buy the first 3 tiers of armor tech. That will put a damper on any aggresive neighbor. As for the $, you can get by with single turns for quite a bit of time if you are efficient with orders. But multiple sets later on certainly allows for quicker coloniization and exploration.

 

 

 

"Is it realistic to assume that I can coexist peacefully with my neighbours, and engage in econmic developement and technological exchanges - or do I have to start warmongering from day one? Because if I don't, I'll just become an easy acquisition for someone else's empire?"

 

It is easy to sit back in a defensive posture, especially if you make some friends. I think some people are getting to the point where they might have too many friends and wished there was some more military action.

 

 

 

"I know it's a tough question, but it would give me some kind of idea, what I'm getting into, instead of playing for a year or so, and then finding out I invested all my time into something I don't personally enjoy."

 

I see the three big activities in the game as colonization, exploration, and waging war. You can partake in any mixture as your interests dictate. Starting racial design and a little luck for your starting system size will most impact the first option. For some insight into the currently military dynamic check out this thread:

http://www.rollingthunderforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1153

 

 

"Main reason, I'm asking, is that I'm so impressed with Russ, and with how Victory! is handled, that if it's (Supernova) to my intial expectations (liking) - I'd rather try the 'big old grand space game' here first, than go somehwere else."

 

They certainly do make a good game.

[hobknob]

If you want to meet other players you have to explore. If you wnat to remain hidden then you just sit around and don't explore. Meeting people can make enemies or friends depending on your approach. Running into somebody early on doesn't spell instant doom for either side as you still have to navigate you r way to each others homeworld and that can be quite difficult to do given high level Warp Points and those pesky one-way WP's. Still it is something to do.

 

I have successfully played a position since the start on little more than a single turns worth of orders since the game started so it is possible. I am even engaged in conflict and fighting wars etc.. However, if you want to run a colonizer you should expect to lay out quite a few more orders to be at all effective.

 

Dollar wise I find that there is a great deal of textural benefit from spending more money, but less strategic value in it. I think part of RTG's strategy with this game was to make it harder to be out spent. I recall a position in SN II where my enemy was sending in 10 times the number of orders I was ( poor starving college student) and it really showed. I don't think I lasted more than about 8 turns once he turned hi sights on my position. The same can not be said for SN:ROTE. IT is entirely possible for a single position to thwart the aggressive advances of even a couple of allied enemies. You also don't have to worry too much about tech desparities as it is really difficult for the elder positions to show up in the newer territories.

 

It's fun. Take the plunge and get a position.

 

[looker]

Lot of similarities to SE IV. I just play solo, so I can't speak about high power network players.

[Lostworlds]

I think to help yourself decide you should probably check into alliances. You don't actually have to join becuase they usually are friendly to new players and give out all kinds of info.

 

Rich

[Kurassier]

Welcome to the SNROTE forum. Just to give you some background. My race has been in since day one. I have run into 6 other nations, only one was hostile. Interactions with other empires truly depends upon the nature of the player running the empire, but just upon my interactions and review of this (and the prior board) forum, it would seem that about 75% of the empires will be friendly. (of course they say it is the quiet ones you have to worry about)

Feel free to send me an email with any questions, I'll do the best I can to answer them.

[gervais]

A lot of positive stuff here about SNROTE, all of which I agree with. I have played this game for years, and have no intention to stop -- so that may tell you how I feel about it!

 

But beware:

(1) The "rules" are vague and sometimes misleading. Before starting your first orders, before even sending in your Lifeform Design, consult with some old hands.

(2) It seems to me that the game started before it was finished, and that some players managed to expand into some of the unfinished areas faster than RTG could get around to finishing them, leaving some players frustrated. Are these players still playing? If so, then I guess that, for them, the rest of the game is so good that it makes up for it.

 

I do know that some players have dropped, and for various reasons -- life-changing event leaving to lack of funds and/or time, dsappointment that SNROTE is not a pure wargame, frustration at the unfinished parts and the buggy parts, ... .

 

If you do start playing SNROTE, then be assured that you will be placed in a part of the galaxy that is far away from the original players, so you are unlikely to encounter a neighbor with technology far in excess of yours. Your best chance of success is to join an alliance even if the other members of the alliance are not your neighbors -- you can share information, discuss strategies, and make friends ("enhance your game-playing experience").

 

I believe that there are hundreds of Empires, with some players playing more than one Empire, and some players having dropped Empires (giving opportunities to the dropped Empires' neighbors).

 

And finally, ... this is a game where a player can choose (and change) his own combination of the 4 Xs: explore, expand, exploit and exterminate -- but the last one is made deliberately hard to do.

 

Come and join us!

[Lord Uriel]

Krysia,

Having played both, the two games are significantly different.

 

Words of caution;

Racial design and luck of the draw on your HW planet may throw a twist on your plans.

 

In Victory, tech pack and country choice are fairly straightforward. You wouldn't choose Russian tech for Canada.

 

In Snova, say you want to be a colonizer race and have your race spread to the stars. You choose certain characteristics that you believe will allow you to do so. You get your first turn and find that your race is on a HW that has Hot Gases for atmosphere, 500 Kelvin temperature, and Molten Zinc for oceans. You now realize that the planets most suitable for you to colonize are Gas Giants, but the temps on those are 2000 Kelvin; way too hot. Your colonization options are limited at this point depending on what you opted for. As far as the oceans go, on a personal note, between three empires and the time invested in the game I know of only one other planet that has Molten Zinc, and that is word of mouth from another player.

 

As a suggestion, and I hate to say it, go with "Brain-in-a-jar" with alot of SRPs left over for tech advances.

Don't worry about being bum rushed on your first few turns. My first empire has encountered *one* other empire.

 

Lord Uriel

[Marvin]

. . .  As far as the oceans go, on a personal note, between three empires and the time invested in the game I know of only one other planet that has Molten Zinc, and that is word of mouth from another player.

 

As a suggestion, and I hate to say it, go with "Brain-in-a-jar" with alot of SRPs left over for tech advances. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've seen 8 Molten Zinc oceans out of many many planets/moons. They are quite rare.

 

Unfortunately Big Brain with tons of SRP's seems to be the accepted norm now. I wish it were not so.

[EternusIV]

Welcome aboard!

 

A rich game to be certain....very open-ended. As Ur-Lord often suggests, read the David Weber/Steve White books for a flavor of the game. There is no Babylon 5, DS9, Firefly or Strar Trek here....its the raw frontiers thick with battleships and warp point battles.

 

Your first year (in real-time) will typically be spent learning the game, exploring, researching vital technology and remaining patient.

 

I would classify this game as: 70% empire builder, 20% strategic warfare and 10% diplomacy and trade (these percentages will fluxuate a little once you have made contact)

 

The top strategies involve saving SRPs, spending them on superior fleet technology and sending out slower-paced screen fleets backed with uber battleships to eliminate neighbors. A guide to for Victory! converts who prefer the sound of 'rolling thunder' may prefer the following basic warmonger strategy:

 

1) Save SRPs and deveop armor, engines and a weapon systme (missiles)

2) Explore until you find neighbors while building screen ships (for defense, initially)

3) Upon contact, pinpoint the Home System if possible

4) Start sending your screen ships to the front (1 jump at a time)

5) Send the 5-jump warships to your enemy's doorstep once your screen ships are positioned

6) Follow up with troops if successful with eliminating home defenses

7) /Repeat with next neighbor

 

All much easier said than done: tech matchups, engine technology, survey technology and screen considerations being the primary issues for steps 2-5....step 6 is a total wild card. Intervening neighbors might pose further complications

 

Currently, my strategy has been to spread like a weed thoughout the local galaxy, improving my industrial base through colonization (with tremendous success) As a non-SRP race, I rely on trade and focused research to stay competitive on the weapons/defense front.

 

If you start new, expect many others around you to develop non-SRP races and come knocking with Cordellium/Good Weapon-equipped "scout ships." If you are stubborn like my new non-SRP race, simply turtle-up and look forward to 2007 to unleash hell (turtling up almost guarantees your survivability)

 

Many players experiment outside the emerging strategy, focusing instead on colonization, exploration, trade, espionage and role-playing.

 

I love SNROTE. Its the only PBM I play.

[ali-t-akua]

Currently, my strategy has been to spread like a weed thoughout the local galax

 

Very funny Eternus. I hear the Bovine Hegemony is looking for you. They need to do some grazing.

 

Of course turtling has its drawbacks too. In my opinion that is a strength of this game, that there are a different strategies to choose from and each has its pluses and minuses.

[hobknob]

If you are start now you shouldn't have to worry too much about rules problems. Most of the problems I find are with emerging techs. For a new position you should have many months/years of stable play.

 

Head the cautions about the rules being vague. They are, but once you get the skinny on what actually happens things are much calmer.

 

[Hughestrog]

And of course, ask questions on this board.

 

I had many questions when I started, and everyone seemed happy to help.

[Krysia's Krusader]

I see the three big activities in the game as colonization, exploration, and waging war.  You can partake in any mixture as your interests dictate.  Starting racial design and a little luck for your starting system size will most impact the first option.  For some insight into the currently military dynamic check out this thread:

http://www.rollingthunderforums.com/index.php?showtopic=1153

 

 

 

Thanks, Clan Elder 'Keen.

I'm having a hard time trying to understand some things.

I don't really understand all the numbers and letters in the first post, so I can't quite catch what MadMartinB meant by his statement.

However; the second post in the thread, I just can't figure at all. Is it me, or did General Miles Avatar simply quote the entire original post, without saying anything?

 

Since I don't know too much, I expressly resisted to post something in that thread, but I'll do so here, cause maybe some people didn't read the rule book too carefully. I'll quote it here...

 

 

Chapter 7

Ship Design

 

Be aware that the naval combat system strongly encourages you to use fewer large ships instead of a huge swarm of small ships. Small ships have their uses, but you would be wise not to depend on huge numbers of them in battle. 

 

See the italics part? RTG must have surely written it this way for a reason. I don't want to sound presumptuous, but perhaps you guys are overlooking something?