How would you consider this empire...?

[T'Aleen Empire]

To further clarify what I am looking for, if this above empire had the outer beacons on all WPs at least two systems out, he would be able to try and see and make contact with any incoming explorer and could make all possible attempts to open communication with that alien empire before they reached the HW. Is this a fair and realistic option for a empire wishing to be open and friendly, but protect himself in this big unknown universe.? If the HW player empire made every attemtp at in game communication and the alien explorer kept going forward without responding and jumped into the HW player's system and was destroyed... what type of player would you lable the Hw player Empire (good-guy, neutral, bad-guy, other)? I would like to hear your thoughts!

 

 

Penn

 

PS: I am speaking theologically for myself and only myself!

[PhaseDragon]

I agree that this would be everything that an empire could do to try and maintain the political "good guy" stance. The only loophole would be a one-way warp that jumps behind your outer ring. Or perhaps in the future if cloaking becomes prevailant and works to foil the beacon detection then maintaining a "white-hat" political stance would be extremely difficult.

[MadMartinB]

Good Guy/Bad Guy is a loose term. I would think that applying Earth Logic to an alien species is nonsensical. Of course that term was coined by the GSL for their political stance.

 

If you want to equate earth logic to space then here goes:

 

Soviet Bomber comes into US territorial waters. It gets warned and continues in. It crosses into US soil or gets closer and is shot down.

 

This would apply in SNROTE. Player A hits picket line for Player B (In this case the T'Aleen Empire from the GSL). Player A goes OK I am in GSL territory. Possible communications warning him off occur. He goes to new warp point, SURV and jumps and gets shot because he now is in the home system of T'Aleen.

 

Good Guy: Neither

Bad Guy: neither

 

Aggressive Guy/Foolish Guy: Player A

Paranoid Guy: Maybe Player B but hey it's space

[T'Aleen Empire]

Martin I am speaking only for myself and no other organization.

[MadMartinB]

Hmmmm What happened to the GSL monicker? Do your comments no longer represent the GSL? Are you still affiliated or do you now only speak as yourself?

 

This is of course of concern to me and others since no one understands when it is the GSL or the player speaking

 

Many of us have seen how you (as an alliance) can speak of the greater good but when called on your actions you drop back to "This is only the player speaking".

[hobknob]

When you encounter another fleet you have no idea, at least at first, how far you are from a homeworld so that bit makes little sense. As to the rest of it, the argument can certainly be made that you are making addequate attempts. Somebody who is looking for a war will likely push until you use force and then claim you shot first anyway. You just have to pick a strategy that works well for you and go with it, always being prepared to handle any adverse fallout that may come as a result of said policy.

 

There is no right or wrong, only what gives you the most fun, enjoyment and bang for your buck.

Edited November 5, 2003 by hobknob

[T'Aleen Empire]

Martin to further clarify for you, I am asking these questions on behalf of or for me the player (Penn Eckert) and/or my empire the T'Aleen Empire. I do not speak for anyone else or on the behalf of any other organization.

[MadMartinB]

Well it really doesn't matter then Penn. Who cares if you are good or bad. You are paying money to have fun and if blowing up people as they come in gives to some excitement then go for it. It does generate a cool battle report.

 

M

[EternusIV]

I would need more information. Most relevant: how many warp points are in the system where they spotted each other?

 

If there are more than 2 total warp points, then you can't blame Player A for his/her actions of moving into Player B's space. If there are just 2, Player A has a lot more constructive notice that he/she might be intruding on Player B's space.

 

A "defending" empire is well within its right to defend itself.

 

An "exploring" empire is well within its rights to tread onward if there are more than 2 warp points in a 'claimed' system.

 

Here is why -- there is no possible way that an "exploring" empire ever "knows" that it is truly 'invading' upon Player B's territory -- let alone would Player A "know" it was 2 systems away from Player B UNLESS Player B foolishly announced all of his nearby systems to Player A in advance.

 

I'll explain my rationale with an example:

 

Scenario:

 

Turn 1

=====

 

Player A (explorer) jumps into Player B (defender) outer system that is marked with a system beacon and contains a fleet from Player B.

--- they spot each other

--- Player B does a SS and now has 3 WPs to choose from

 

Lets look at Player A's options --

1) Turn around and jump back into the system they just came from

2) Scan a new warp point and jump through a new warp point

 

I would disagree with anyone who implies that Player A has some obligation to drop everything and turn back around. There are other systems beyond the one 'claimed' by Player B -- some of which might loop back to other systems of Player A. Player A cannot assume that every warp point in this system will lead to other systems that are 'claimed' by player B. Player A is in his/her every right to see what systems might neighbor the outer system of B to demarcate territory and establish a 'border'.

 

Moving on:

 

Turn 2

=====

Player A does a SS and SURVs a new WP and Warps through a new warp point

 

Turn 3

======

Whoa! Player A has stumbled upon another system marked by Player B with several warp points. What does player A do now? Player A has the same choice:

1) Turn around and jump back into the system they just came from

2) Scan a new warp point and jump through a new warp point

 

Player A still cannot assume that the next warp point also leads to a system of Player B.

 

Turn 4

======

Player A does a SS and SURVs a new WP and Warps through a new warp point

 

Turn 5

======

Player A is blown to bits by a warp sentinel belonging to Player B.

 

Who do you blame now?

 

If player B claims that Player A was 'invading' I would require Player B to prove that Player A had the intent to invade. What notice did Player B give Player A aside from a system beacon? Sure the beacon says "hey you are within my zone of claimed systems" but what guarantee is there that EVERY system beyond the 'claimed' system 'belongs' to Player B?

 

Are you suggesting that the only proper measuer is that Player A DROPS EVERYTHING AND TURNS AROUND once in contact with a system beacon from Player B?

 

You have to think about this, dont you?

 

It really depends on:

 

1) The notice provided by Player B to Player A about ADJACENT systems that belong to Player B;

2) Player A's actual intent/knoweldge of intrusion.

[Kurassier]

Your scenario in and of itself would not tell me if he was good/bad or neutral.

Home systems on shoot to kill, to me, makes complete sense regardless of your alignment. NOBODY is coming into my home system without an express invitation. (and I don't expect to issue any, any time soon)

As far as the rest, it depends on the response. If you did as your post says, and made every effort to communicate and the communication was reasonable, then maybe you are a good guy.

 

Right now, in the opinion of the Sabeli (which of course is the only opinion that counts ) there are only 3 types. 1) The Sabeli, the Supreme and Ultimate Good Guys. 2) The "name withheld because I didn't ask him if he wanted our contact to be made public" (the only alien encountered), whom I would consider a 'good guy' and a friend of the Sabeli. and 3) a bunch of unexplored space......

so in my world, there are not 'bad' guys or even neutral guys. Just us good guys! and I'll drink to that!

 

Alcorn the Honored One

[Krelnett_of_Kraan]

We are all 'good', are we not? Why would anyone want to destroy sentient life?

[EternusIV]

Krelnett-

 

We are all 'good', are we not? Why would anyone want to destroy sentient life?

 

I hear ya. But it will make the game more fun for sure

 

There are a few out there who have basically stated they are out for blood. I'll let each elaborate on their own -- but my impression was that they won't mind shooting first and asking later.

 

DISCLAIMER: This is purely off the top of my head. Who knows? Maybe they gave me the wrong impression. If so, my apologies. If I missed someone, let us know BTW - I'm glad somebody is playing tough out there. too many kumby-a posts gets boring

 

1) Azuth

2) Cao Cao

3) Gjorhaan

4) Sakarissa?

[PhaseDragon]

In my experience every empire fights when cornered. What happens after that determines the fate of both empires. Brawn rules over politics in most cases. If you go exploring and want to claim foul when your ship gets blown up then by all means come back and do something about it. Till then just keep crying foul.

[Sakarissa]

Eternus,

 

I am understandably curious to hear the reasons for my making the #4 position on your list of bloodthirsty, "tag 'em and bag 'em", kill everything before me and drink their blood, prophecy spewing, Bad Guy list. Please, enlighten me. *grabs bag of popcorn*

 

Sakarissa

[WKE235]

1) Azuth

2) Cao Cao

3) Gjorhaan

4) Sakarissa

Those are your top 4? Wow, I'm sure there are a lot of warlike and bloodthirsty .. correction .. make that agressive and highly energetic (my lawyers say I should avoid making these others upset) .. empires out there that would take umbrage with neglecting them.