DWillard Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 I Definitely like the idea of scientists being able to get hits while on ships. I really like Woolfe's idea of haivng science labs and other science related equipment on board adding to their success. The Revolution stuff is pretty cool too! But I do have one suggestion. Actually it's more like I'm on my knees begging. Please, Please, Please consider changing in some way how the next Emperor is selected. Having it automatically be the next highest level character could be disasterous. For example, lets say I want to increase my chances to get Scientists. Though I only have a couple of them, I have been lucky and one of them is a level 7 Chief Scientist. I've seen what he can do and I like it so I want to change my government type to get more of them. Well, this level 7 guy happens to be the next highest level character after the Emperor. Not only will I be down a scientist, but I will loose a damn good one. Or what if your next highest level character is a naval combat officer who is involved in some naval battles 4 systems away. Suddenly he's no longer a naval officer and you don't want your Emperor in a war fleet that far from home. Loosing a very high level Naval officer could result in the loss of a battle and the death of your new Emperor before you could get him home. (Unless the new Emperor is automatically transported to the HW). There are a lot of strange situations like these that could happen and could strongly discourage the use of the order. Maybe this is intentional but I think the 25 turn limit is all that is needed to prevent abuse of the order. I would suggest just letting the player choose which character becomes the new Emperor. I don't see any real harm in doing it this way. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolfe99 Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 I Definitely like the idea of scientists being able to get hits while on ships. I really like Woolfe's idea of haivng science labs and other science related equipment on board adding to their success. The Revolution stuff is pretty cool too! But I do have one suggestion. Actually it's more like I'm on my knees begging. Please, Please, Please consider changing in some way how the next Emperor is selected. Having it automatically be the next highest level character could be disasterous. For example, lets say I want to increase my chances to get Scientists. Though I only have a couple of them, I have been lucky and one of them is a level 7 Cheif Scientist. I've seen what he can do and I like it so I want to change my government type to get more of them. Well, this level 7 guy happens to be the next highest level character after the Emperor. Not only will I be down a scientist, but I will loose a damn good one. Or what if your next highest level character is a naval combat officer who is involved in some naval battles 4 systems away. Suddenly he's no longer a naval officer and you don't want your Emperor in a war fleet that far from home. Loosing a very high level Naval officer could result in the loss of a battle and the death of your new Emperor before you could get him home. (Unless the new Emperor is automatically transported to the HW). There are a lot of strange situations like these that could happen and could strongly discourage the use of the order. Maybe this is intentional but I think the 25 turn limit is all that is needed to prevent abuse of the order. I would suggest just letting the player choose which character becomes the new Emperor. I don't see any real harm in doing it this way. What do you guys think? I agree with Dwillard entirely on this. And it's funny, because I have *exactly* the problem that he addresses. I want to do a revolution, but my highest level characters apart from the emporer are 2 Master Scientists which I definitely don't want to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolfe99 Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 Since we're on the topic of characters, do scientists give a bonus in EXPLS? The rule say explorers do, but mention nothing about scientists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted November 9, 2003 Report Share Posted November 9, 2003 So goes the revolution. Pete's way makes sense. Revolt and bring in the next closest person to the throne. It's a revolution not a benevolent change of government. Long live Chaos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaseDragon Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 I like the idea of designating your next leader as well. I also favor the scientist chance for research help while on a fleet, although I don't really use scientists on fleets. I use explorers on fleets for SURV and EXPL. I think that I will start using them for EXPL bonuses though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted November 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 How about making it the highest level leader of the Imperial Tradition that you are changing too? After all, leaders bring their agenda to the table with them. (Ever see a Republican president without a tax cut proposal in his back pocket?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sssarass Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Pete, I would vote for giving scientists a bonus for being on a fleet, perhaps impacted by the stuff (i.e. science labs a or b or better, survey landers, computers, sensors, etc...) Don't we currently get a lot of data for our Space Shuttles and their specific scientific experiments (same for some for some of our satellites). Also in early discussions didn't you say having your scientist on unique worlds would be more beneficially than your homeworld (but having the scientific installations somewhere in the system benefited the entire system??? CTO Sssarass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Clan Elder....very good point. I agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 (edited) Whoops - my mistake. Scientists work fine on colony worlds. I checked the code fast to post an answer here, and I saw some code that referred to the homeworld -- it had to do with attrition checks and not scientists after all. I've also been told by some players that they've received scientist hits on colony worlds since I added the scientist print statements. Nothing to worry about <whew>. I had removed the chance for scientists to work on research projects while on fleets (they had to be on a world, any world) but had been thinking about adding that back in (working on something while the ship sails around, so he's not wasting his time). He wouldn't be as effective as being on a world, but a research hit is always good. This would make scientists pretty good, as they could help on SURV missions and still have a shot at research, but they still aren't as good as Explorers on the SURVey front. Have any objections to adding that in, to help out a little on the research end? It would seem to me that there are plenty of things to research where being in space would be beneficial as opposed to planetside. A few that spring to mind: Space science Jump drives Sensors Engines Space weapons and defenses etc.. As it turns out, a good healthy part of the available items to research are specifically for space use/action. Therefore it would make perfect sense for a scientist to have a breakthrough in space. Edited November 13, 2003 by hobknob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWillard Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 So goes the revolution. Pete's way makes sense. Revolt and bring in the next closest person to the throne. It's a revolution not a benevolent change of government. Long live Chaos! Being the next highest level character has nothing to do with being the closest to the throne. That just doesn't make any sense. Especially if you are not a monarchy or heirarchy or something similar. Limiting it to the highest level character from the Imperial Tradition you are changing to may make sense but it almost assures loosing a character of the type you are trying to get more of. I see this as being much more of a game play issue than trying to make it realistic. What's the point of changing governments if you are going to loose a very high level character of the type you want to change to? How long will it take you to make up for that high level character? Concerning realism, you could argue back and forth with lots of examples from history and make just about any point that you want (so lets not do this) but I don't think you can emphatically say that it has always been the highest ranking officer that takes over in militaristic coups d'etat. That just isn't true. All of our characters are elite and at the top of their field and should be capable of overthrowing a government. I, as the player (not as the current Emperor) am making the dicision to overthrow the government. It therefore does seem reasonable that I, as the player, should be able to choose who I want to lead the new government (especially considering that I get to pick the new gov. type). I don't think it's completely illogical to assume that a person or group could back a low level character (their pawn, so to speak) and place him/her in control of the government. Again, for game play issues, I think being able to choose the new Emperor is the best way to go. It makes the order much more useful and as I said before, the 25 turn limit is all that is needed to prevent abuse of the order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolfe99 Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 I am agreeing with Dwillard again. I'm sure Pete wants the character loss to be a penalty in order to prevent abuse of the option. However, you'd still lose a character if you were allowed to choose the successor. Also the 25 turn increment goes a long way to preclude abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laserwolf Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 We concur with the player picking of the new Emperor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Choosing the new Emperor seems to be a little too easy (who wouldn't just choose the most worthless character you can think of...for the next Emperor of your Empire?). How about this: I could change it to take the highest-ranking Diplomat-class character that you have. The Emperor was a Diplomat, and you're going to lose him anyway. The next highest-ranking Diplomat becomes the new Emperor, so in the end you actually gain some rank (the new Emperor, who was a Diplomat already, becomes the Emperor, which is the highest rank a Diplomat can aspire to in any event). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krelnett_of_Kraan Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 I'd also like to be able to pick a new flag. From a real-world standpoint (oh no!), you didn't see the Russians keeping the hammer and sickle after they disbanded the Soviet Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakarissa Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Krellnet brings up an interesting point. Changing your flag would be a cool option for the revolution. I also second the idea of losing a diplomat class leader to become the new emperor. Sakarissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.