Naval Combat Primer

[ali-t-akua]

No, no, no .... a retro-phrenologist uses a mallet to raise the lumps in the APPROPRIATE area. WHAPO merely raises any and all lumps they can, with additional activities in the areas of breaking limbs and causing internal injuries. They're more of a full-service kind of industry. wacko.gif

 

Don't forget the risk of catching pneumonia.

[Locklyn]

Pete&Russ,

How is work coming along with this? Will the defensive systems overhaul be implemented in the near future or what sort of ETA can we expect on it?

 

/Locklyn

[Locklyn]

B U M P...

 

Any chance we're going to get a final document on battles? The primer draft as it stands is erroneous on several counts and misleading to new players.

 

 

/Locklyn

[Sakarissa]

A clarification on shields would be nice too. According to their description, once they get knocked down in a b attle, they are down the rest of the battle. Just want to make sure that is accurate. A possible interpretation is that they only get knocked down for that pulse and come back up the following pulse.

 

 

Also, has anyone verified one way or the other if the warp point size (in regards to combat warp bubbles) is actually being used?

 

In addition, on the first pulse that the enemy ships warp in for a battle, do they get to fire or are their sensors still 'rebooting' for that pulse?

 

Just want to make sure I design my warp point defenses with accurate information.

 

Sakarissa

[cestvel]

A clarification on shields would be nice too. According to their description, once they get knocked down in a b attle, they are down the rest of the battle. Just want to make sure that is accurate. A possible interpretation is that they only get knocked down for that pulse and come back up the following pulse.

 

 

Also, has anyone verified one way or the other if the warp point size (in regards to combat warp bubbles) is actually being used?

 

In addition, on the first pulse that the enemy ships warp in for a battle, do they get to fire or are their sensors still 'rebooting' for that pulse?

 

Just want to make sure I design my warp point defenses with accurate information.

 

Sakarissa

 

Treat shields as armor that is back at end of battle. Otherwise they would be much too powerful anyway.

[WKE235]

Also, has anyone verified one way or the other if the warp point size (in regards to combat warp bubbles) is actually being used?

 

In addition, on the first pulse that the enemy ships warp in for a battle, do they get to fire or are their sensors still 'rebooting' for that pulse?

 

Just want to make sure I design my warp point defenses with accurate information.

 

Sakarissa

 

Yes, Warp Point size is being used .. for the ships. As the guide states, each combat round, a certain number

of ships can appear on the other side of the warp point. Only those ships can be targetted and shot at. Of course, you are never told what order the ships went through in. But in a big battle I had with the NSI before many of the combat rules were listed, I traded emails with Pete and confirmed this was working (and also learned that deploy location does not absolutely control when a ship goes through the WP).

 

Two things to note -- (1) in a WP battle, mobile weapons like drones and fighters/gunboats all launch and engage in the battle. Immediately. No need for the carrier to come through the WP before launching. Heck, the battle could be over by the time that occurs, if the WP is very small and the force large. Take a look at the Roman warp point falls thread of recent days. The attacking force had a large carrier component. And all of those gunboats entered battle and were fighting from round 1, even as corvettes poured through the WP for the Romans to shoot at. Better CIDS could have turned the battle (by shooting down all the gunboats early, then they defenders could turkey shoot the WP ships).

 

(2) in a WP battle, fleet level items like Fire Control apply across all ships, even when ships have not crossed the WP yet. Again, looking at the Roman WP battle, the high Fire Control ships of the attackers were back in the pack (or so I am guessing). This allowed the large number of gunboats to attack multiple targets, with no risk of being fired on in the early round (at least till they went through the WP). Another example might be that big Assault War Dreadnaught on a recent EEOC thread. The thing is a slow moving brick. Lets say it joins up with command ships with all the fire control (and admirals) set to a safe locations, and a set of screens so it takes awhile before the FC ships warp in. The Dreadnaught could warp in, and still use the fleets fire control to smash multiple targets, even as other ships warpped in behind it.

[ali-t-akua]

Also, has anyone verified one way or the other if the warp point size (in regards to combat warp bubbles) is actually being used?

 

In addition, on the first pulse that the enemy ships warp in for a battle, do they get to fire or are their sensors still 'rebooting' for that pulse?

 

Just want to make sure I design my warp point defenses with accurate information.

 

Sakarissa

 

Yes, Warp Point size is being used .. for the ships. As the guide states, each combat round, a certain number

of ships can appear on the other side of the warp point. Only those ships can be targetted and shot at. Of course, you are never told what order the ships went through in. But in a big battle I had with the NSI before many of the combat rules were listed, I traded emails with Pete and confirmed this was working (and also learned that deploy location does not absolutely control when a ship goes through the WP).

 

Two things to note -- (1) in a WP battle, mobile weapons like drones and fighters/gunboats all launch and engage in the battle. Immediately. No need for the carrier to come through the WP before launching. Heck, the battle could be over by the time that occurs, if the WP is very small and the force large. Take a look at the Roman warp point falls thread of recent days. The attacking force had a large carrier component. And all of those gunboats entered battle and were fighting from round 1, even as corvettes poured through the WP for the Romans to shoot at. Better CIDS could have turned the battle (by shooting down all the gunboats early, then they defenders could turkey shoot the WP ships).

 

(2) in a WP battle, fleet level items like Fire Control apply across all ships, even when ships have not crossed the WP yet. Again, looking at the Roman WP battle, the high Fire Control ships of the attackers were back in the pack (or so I am guessing). This allowed the large number of gunboats to attack multiple targets, with no risk of being fired on in the early round (at least till they went through the WP). Another example might be that big Assault War Dreadnaught on a recent EEOC thread. The thing is a slow moving brick. Lets say it joins up with command ships with all the fire control (and admirals) set to a safe locations, and a set of screens so it takes awhile before the FC ships warp in. The Dreadnaught could warp in, and still use the fleets fire control to smash multiple targets, even as other ships warpped in behind it.

 

 

One somewhat unrelated questions this raises is Fire Control recalculated each pulse or is it calculated at the beginning of the turn and then it stays at that level until the fight completes. Does anyone know the answer?

[Prospective]

Ali that is an excellent question. I had not though of it before, I had always thought that the FC was calculated once at the beginning of a battle and that was it for the entire battle. But maybe that is not true? Maybe it gets updated each round? I'd like to hear Pete's take on this.

 

This brings up another FC type question having to do with multiple setups and special naval characters. How is that FC calculated? I know the formula for naval officers (highest officer plus the sum of the square root of all naval officers). But what happens if there are more than a single setup on each side of a battle. Now how is the FC rating calculated?

 

Lets say thera are 4 empires involved, with 2 empires on side A and two empires on side B. Is the FC of empire 1 on side A calculated, and the FC of empire 2 on side A calculated, then added together? Or is the FC of side A calculated as a whole?

 

What about FC due to special characters? Is the "special character" FC of empire 1 of side A calculated separate from empire 2 of side A, then added? Or are all the naval offers of side A calculated?

 

Thanks guys.

[RTGPete]

Ali that is an excellent question. I had not though of it before, I had always thought that the FC was calculated once at the beginning of a battle and that was it for the entire battle. But maybe that is not true? Maybe it gets updated each round? I'd like to hear Pete's take on this.

 

This brings up another FC type question having to do with multiple setups and special naval characters. How is that FC calculated? I know the formula for naval officers (highest officer plus the sum of the square root of all naval officers). But what happens if there are more than a single setup on each side of a battle. Now how is the FC rating calculated?

 

Lets say thera are 4 empires involved, with 2 empires on side A and two empires on side B. Is the FC of empire 1 on side A calculated, and the FC of empire 2 on side A calculated, then added together? Or is the FC of side A calculated as a whole?

 

What about FC due to special characters? Is the "special character" FC of empire 1 of side A calculated separate from empire 2 of side A, then added? Or are all the naval offers of side A calculated?

 

Thanks guys.

 

Fire Control is recalculated at intervals throughout the battle, so ship losses will affect it. It could even go up if ships without bridge systems were lost.

 

If there are multiple empires each with naval commanders on one side of a battle, the leader fire control bonus is calculated for each allied empire and the results are summed. This is superior to making one calculation using all of the leaders on one side due to the effeect of the square-rooting formula.

 

Base Fire Control for each side based on bridge systems alone is calculated using all ships on each side whether or not they come from multiple empires.

[ali-t-akua]

Ali that is an excellent question. I had not though of it before, I had always thought that the FC was calculated once at the beginning of a battle and that was it for the entire battle. But maybe that is not true? Maybe it gets updated each round? I'd like to hear Pete's take on this.

 

This brings up another FC type question having to do with multiple setups and special naval characters. How is that FC calculated? I know the formula for naval officers (highest officer plus the sum of the square root of all naval officers). But what happens if there are more than a single setup on each side of a battle. Now how is the FC rating calculated?

 

Lets say thera are 4 empires involved, with 2 empires on side A and two empires on side B. Is the FC of empire 1 on side A calculated, and the FC of empire 2 on side A calculated, then added together? Or is the FC of side A calculated as a whole?

 

What about FC due to special characters? Is the "special character" FC of empire 1 of side A calculated separate from empire 2 of side A, then added? Or are all the naval offers of side A calculated?

 

Thanks guys.

 

Fire Control is recalculated at intervals throughout the battle, so ship losses will affect it. It could even go up if ships without bridge systems were lost.

 

If there are multiple empires each with naval commanders on one side of a battle, the leader fire control bonus is calculated for each allied empire and the results are summed. This is superior to making one calculation using all of the leaders on one side due to the effeect of the square-rooting formula.

 

Base Fire Control for each side based on bridge systems alone is calculated using all ships on each side whether or not they come from multiple empires.

 

Pete, regarding recalculation, are all leaders assumed to survive until the end of the battle?

 

If they do survive until the end of the battle, does that also hold true in multi-fleet engagements or are they lost once their empire's ships are all destroyed?

[Prospective]

Another good question Ali. What happens if the fleet that a naval officer is assigned to gets destroyed? Is leadership FC recalculated at that time? Or is it assume that he transfers his flag to another ship or fleet?

 

Going one better, in a multi empire engagement, what if all fleets in a particular empire are destroyed? Will the leadership FC bonus be removed at that time? Or does it stay in effect until the end of the battle?

 

About the recalculation information, does the bridge system FC get recalculated every combat round? Or is the recalculation less frequent than each combat round?

[Lord Uriel]

Part of this was answered some time ago, don't remember where it is in the boards or maybe in a turn note. Anywho, a character is assigned to a fleet and not a ship, so the commander FC bonus and his life would only be lost when the fleet is destroyed.

However, I recall quite some time ago there was a player who still had a character assigned to a fleet where the ships had been destroyed (I *think* he had scuttled it). Don't remember how it was resolved or if this was something that was fixed or not.

 

Lord Uriel

[cestvel]

Well, I had characters surviving the destruction of their assigned fleet (no other fleet around to carry them, as well).

[Kurassier]

If there are multiple empires each with naval commanders on one side of a battle, the leader fire control bonus is calculated for each allied empire and the results are summed. This is superior to making one calculation using all of the leaders on one side due to the effeect of the square-rooting formula.

 

How do you determine allies since the diplomacy settings only affect ROE. For example, if I am Allied with two other empires and a fight ensues between them, what determines what 'side' I am on for puproses of the battle?

Signed, Innocent Bystander

[Lord Deependra]

If there are multiple empires each with naval commanders on one side of a battle, the leader fire control bonus is calculated for each allied empire and the results are summed. This is superior to making one calculation using all of the leaders on one side due to the effeect of the square-rooting formula.

 

How do you determine allies since the diplomacy settings only affect ROE. For example, if I am Allied with two other empires and a fight ensues between them, what determines what 'side' I am on for puproses of the battle?

Signed, Innocent Bystander

 

I seem to recall Pete once saying he uses his best judgement.