The New Victory

[miraeng]

I'd like to see dedicated artillery that can attack 2 maybe 3 Provences over

[dageraad]

My suggestions:

 

Leave the map, the setup and core mechenanisms for what they are. They have been tried and tested in 87 previous games and they work fine.

Do not change the turn sequence and turn output format too much. The main appeal of the game is the stron "armmchair general" feeling from the LACK of information. You can ponder over your orders for weeks, send them in, start biting your nails for days and then eagerly await each envelope or email from RTG.

 

A limited wishlist:

 

- An OMG where you attack with only part of an army, leaving the rest of the stack for another action, like a city attack. A sort of "split"attack.

- Reduced basing level costs for grond attack planes and most fighters. Most of these were intended to be based on any grassland that was level or flat, they certainly did not need the same concrete runway a medium or heavy bomber needs.

- Allow shipboard fighters to be build at "LINE"experience level.

- Allow all techs to build some regimental units for added variety. Alt the moment the Para regiment is the only regiment you can use on it's own, but extra regiments are included in HA and SS armored divisions. Remove those, and add Armored regiments for the American and German armies, Katjusha rocket regiments for the Russian armies and Commando regiments for the British armies. V1 regiments for the germans woud fit in right well.

THis will give the army some extra variety.

- Allow some units to be build that could have been build, but never were completed. For example: the Graf Zeppelin and Sovietsky Soyuz were both started in the beginning of the war and could have been complete if the leaders had chosen so. They do not disturb the balance of the game, as they become available late.

- Do something about the speed and Fuel consumption of ordinary cargo ships.

- Allow the building of Troop Ships, like the Queen Mary. At the moment they are used as fast, efficient and expensive freighers. But using them to ferry coal or Iron ore goes against my sense of esthetics.

- And we all would like to see Italian, German or Japanese units.

- Make supply drawing a standing order for each unit that withou General supply at the end of the turn. Only General Supply and not more than 1 turn worth of supply.

- Reduce the effectivity of spying orders when having a negative morale. It is great to have a total ally that when eliminatied wants to do 120 EM orders for you, but it is a bit unfair if used against you, for there is nothing you can do against it.

[Gobo]

- An OMG where you attack with only part of an army, leaving the rest of the stack for another action, like a city attack. A sort of "split"attack.

+1.

 

- Make supply drawing a standing order for each unit that withou General supply at the end of the turn. Only General Supply and not more than 1 turn worth of supply.

Or at least make newly constructed divisions draw supplies automatically, I tend to foget that very often, ending up with damaged new units.

And I can't imagine why anyone would want to create a new division while not supplying them.

[Predator]

Some ideas for Victory II:

 

--Allow countries to build new ports in their home territories for say 1000 cp's and some cash

 

--Allow reorganization ground so a bigger force can be broken down for attacks to multiple locations. Maybe limit the number of forces at 1 location to 2 or 3.

 

--make air attacks more effective against sub groups.

 

--allow slashing of fixed defenses instead of 3 or 6 at a time.

 

--eliminate or increase the ants build levels. this was done to make it fair for small countries to compete with larger ones but why should you be penalized for having alot of production. If you capture and produce it you should be able to build it.

 

--increase the # of guns for each chab battery. Right now no matter how much chab and fortification a port has if you show up with a big enough naval force that city will be flattened.

 

--increase base chance for success on RPD orders

 

--cut fuel consumption for ak's from 2/smr to 1/smr

 

--allow building of radar units to increase probability of FC intercepts. radar literally saved the british airforce and right now there is nothing more frustrating than building 50 fighters and watching them not intercept turn after turn.

 

--reduce the distance between U.S. and Canada to Europe. This would make them more playable and a bigger threat in the game.

 

--make partisians easier to get under control in a captured city

 

--Ships are too vulnerable to TAS attack aircraft and whole fleets are sunk by a group of JU-88A-4's. limit ship attacks by air to only MS aircraft

 

--increase starting treasury to 35,000

 

--make it more spongebob friendly so he can get past tech 10

 

--no one at RTG sleeps until Vic II is up and running just kidding...no I'm not

[Hamish]

- An OMG where you attack with only part of an army, leaving the rest of the stack for another action, like a city attack. A sort of "split"attack.

+1.

 

- Make supply drawing a standing order for each unit that withou General supply at the end of the turn. Only General Supply and not more than 1 turn worth of supply.

Or at least make newly constructed divisions draw supplies automatically, I tend to foget that very often, ending up with damaged new units.

And I can't imagine why anyone would want to create a new division while not supplying them.

 

And I can't imagine how anyone would forget to do that more than once.

[Guest Spongebob]

Heres some ideas, especially as this is the un-official new ideas thread and Russ will be putting an official one up soon.

 

Make Denmark the size of Europe

All other nations are subservient to Denmark

Spongebob starts at turn 70

If Spongebob is to lose then all other players must drop

 

Anyone on the top 10 most hated list must never play again but if they do then they must be my TAs

[Earthling]

Some ideas for Victory II:

 

--increase the # of guns for each chab battery. Right now no matter how much chab and fortification a port has if you show up with a big enough naval force that city will be flattened.

 

--reduce the distance between U.S. and Canada to Europe. This would make them more playable and a bigger threat in the game.

 

--make partisians easier to get under control in a captured city

 

I pretty much like all the ideas you had, but would like to comment on these three in particular:

 

Cities did get flattened by large naval forces regardless of the batteries present. That is just the way it was.

 

Instead of reducing the distance between the North America and Europe, just fix the ship SMR numbers. They do not move proportional to the ground units within the game mechanics. Increase the ships SMR's by 150% and reduce the fuel consumption.

 

Partisans are supposed to be a pain. One of the reasons that the French resistance played is huge part in the war was the partisans.

[Earthling]

Russ,

 

How about instead of ending all the current games at the current stage, but rather putting them on 'hold' until a viable solution is achieved?

[Kurassier]

Here are some of my suggestions:

-Make the new Victory sponge free

 

now for serious ones

I always thought it was bogus to have to CL to a TA for them to use it. Many US units were stationed in the UK before DDay. For purposes of movement and stacking treat TA units as the same and allow multiple armies in the same location. For example, you could have a 9 division GB army in the same province as a 9 division French army. Or 3 6 division for that matter.

Allow TAs to fly fighter cover over TA troops.

Allow TAs to transport allied troops.

etc.

I also thought it was bogus to have an 18 division army 'disappear' because it's retreat route was 'occupied' by a single division. At least allow the army to 'keep' retreating (could apply some attrition loss) to the next province/city if possible. If truly surrounded, then toast.

Same for air bases, if a base is overrun, allow the planes to 'scramble' to another airbase within range, again, give them some attrition losses. Give the air forces a 'retreat location' like the army has.

Allow a combining of divisions. For example, you have 4 elite divisions at 20%, if you DRG, you get 4 green divisions( or line, not looking at the rules), why not allow those 4 divisions to combine to make one 80% elite division?

 

Anyway, just some random thoughts from me, I do like the no sleep one that Predator listed!

 

AND don't ever let this happen again, just finished 120 orders for game 81, and it was just getting interesting again, my invasion into Rumania, Iraq getting to finally see some real armies, etc.

 

 

Oh, almost forgot, standing orders, such as MCRs. It can still, 'cost' an order, but it would be nice for the large countries not to have to retype the same mcr order every turn.

[Predator]

Allow TAs to fly fighter cover over TA troops.

Allow TAs to transport allied troops

Allow a combining of divisions. For example, you have 4 elite divisions at 20%, if you DRG, you get 4 green divisions( or line, not looking at the rules), why not allow those 4 divisions to combine to make one 80% elite division?

 

I like these ideas as well. Also give the germans a larger transport ship. They routinely used passenger liners during the war to ransport ships, all countries did except maybe russia..(queen mary, quenn elizabeth, normandy,Wilhelm Gustloff, etc..)

 

--reduce fuel cost of all shipping to 1/smr

 

--allow pop to exceed 99 people

 

--allow making of synthetic oil for energy. the germans were quite good at this during the war.

 

--Change mission profile of flak units. right now they only fire at aircraft if attacked directly . they need to be more durable and effective against aircraft.

 

--rail strikes are too effective. 3000 rail blown out a turn takes 20 turns to rebuild. maybe disable the rail for a number of turns or be able to repair rail for cash to what it was before the air attack. the rail is still there just temporarily disabled

 

--increase the # of standing soam orders. 10 is not enough

 

--add more cities to the AIC net, expand it out 2 more cities to catch more

[Glamdring]

I would like to say that even though I am sad to see Victory! pass away and I am grateful that Victory II is now a prority. Frankly Vic 88 was going to be my last game. I love the game dearly, but am so annoyed by various longstanding issues that it was time to give it up. Victory II should allow a much more balanced game.

 

My wish list in no paticular order of importance:

 

 

1) Add Command and Control rating for the various divisions.

 

Granted the T-34A was the dominant tank of its time, it however was used with out proper command and control for quite some time. A inferior tank divisions of PZ III and IV performed much more powerfully than a similar group of T-34's given the Germans superior Command and Control abilites early in the war.

 

2) END the suicide drops of AIR40 regiments all over the map.

 

Many ways have been suggested but dropping AIR40's hundreds of miles from any possible force that could rescue it is is just WRONG

 

3) Improve the balance of Fighters versus bombers. Along these lines perhaps fighters adn small bombers should have a nearly Zero airbase rating. In fact what value is the IL-2 Sturmovik in this game? None.....but it was the most widely buildt fighter of the war so clearly the game mechanics discrimnate against short range aircraft. Perhaps short range aircraft and fighters should be assigned to Armies as a "generic" Close air support modifier of some kind.

 

4) A strategic movement rate would add tempo to the game. I suggest that a divions SMR be DOUBLED (or movement rate cost cut in half) when moving through friendly provinces. In fact given a good highway network shouldn't the cost of moving through the Mountains of a FRIENDLY province be 1 smr just like an ordinary province?

 

5) I would love to see a more Supernova style of play where I could "invest" in change the modfiers of my various divisions for say Command and Control, air defence, armoured attack, anti-tank defense, etc... This of course would leave behing the last of the World War II "simulations" effect.

 

6) Change the Victory! condions so that they are NOT picked before a game starts. Some countries exceed their expecations so greatly that they are at a disadvantage at teh end of the game. In Game 79 Canada TOTALLY exceeded any possible expectations and captured the greatest amount of IMDL in the game. His reward was second place since he "resonably" did not choose that as a Victory! condition at the beginning of the game

 

7) Unlink a divisions offense and defensive strength. I think a TAS strike should be able to wipe out a divisions OFFENSIVE abiility. But its DEFENSIVE ability should be largely left intact or at least that of an infantry division. A divisions % of damage from airstrikes shoud effect Offense and Defence differently. This will help balance the current games dominance of the JU-88. I would go so far to say that a TAS should not be able to eliminate a division. A unit can only be totally eliminated totaly by another ground unit.

 

8)

[brogan]

1 - create some real standing orders. An order where you list the real order that runs at the turn's end or start. You can issue anything with this, BFDU, SDG, BGU, etc. I would base the number of standing orders of this type on a performance indicator, something like you get 2 at the start and 1 more for each capital you control.

 

2 - Expand AIC nets somehow. I would have any aic that contains a capital city can have an AIC out to 4 instead of 3.

 

3 - Make owning capitals more important see above

 

4 - Make Ship LAA/HAA more effective, I would say by a factor of 2.

 

5 - Allow Night fighters to FC up to 50% of their range at night, and allow them to FC 100% during day attacks.

 

6 - Somehow make the UAU less tedious. Maybe an 'all' switch to upgrade the entire group would be nice.

 

7 - Make Navy less expensive or balance it out a bit more vs Air

 

8 - Please make alliances less random when it comes time to BPA. Have a built in number of times you need to BPA before a LESS random number factors in, for example:

NAP, must BPA 2 times then a 90% success

ALL, must BPA 4 times then a 90% success

TA, must BPA 6 times then a 90% success

 

That is all for now!

 

-Andy Brogan

[Meatball]

I'm sad to see Vic put on hiatus for a while, but I'll love to see a refresh of the game. With the current Victory, there are so many little rule quirks and tweaks with that it's almost not a WWII strategy game, but a game of who understands the nuances of the rules the best. I'm looking forward to Vic II and after a look at some old turnsheets and the rules came up with few ideas.

 

General Stuff

 

- Please come up with a nice order entry program! Maybe some basic error checking built into it? A nice order reader that showed maps and troop locations and such would be nice too

 

- How about adding a few new tech groups? Japanese, Italian, French would all work. (If you add Japenese, perhaps an OMA Kamikaze?)

 

- How about expanding the map a bit and adding a few more countries/players to each game?

 

- Since I don't think anyone is actually using paper order sheets anymore (I could be wrong though?) Maybe just come up with a set turn price and leave it at that through the whole game?

 

- Sharing Intel with TA's should be turned on by default.

 

Ground Units/Orders

 

- DMOG's/Retreat Locations, man I hate the way retreating works. Unless an army unit is completely surrounded (or trapped in a Pincer), they should always try to retreat to friendly territory.

 

- Upgrading Ground Units could be tweaked. If you are just upgrading to a newer type of the same division type (Mech 39 to Mech 40), the cost should be a lot less that if you were moving between two completely different division types. You're really only upgrading equipment.

 

- Make LDB's useless unless there's a 'real' division there to form a backbone force the LDB's could rally on. Force people to really start thinking about defending their borders and lands with real troops as opposed to just having a single LDB's in every province to stop ATC's. I mean really, you think that 1 LDB consisting of a few hundred guys with rusty rifles are going to bring an Armored division to a halt for two weeks? I'd bet it's more likely they'd be hiding in their root cellars.

 

- Have a smaller division cap per army, say 8-10? This could spread out the battles a bit more and lead to more realistic actions. Right now every rushes to build these mega-armies of 18 divisions (216,000 men, which is larger than the entire D-Day landing force btw), but have no troops anywhere else.

 

- DRG's should work like SDG's and let you pull replacements from anywhere in your AIC whether you're in a city or not.

 

- How about adding a new Defense tactic? Something between Deliberate Defense and Hasty Defense? Any unit that's been in the same location more than one turn gets a "Mediocre Defense" type tactic. Bump up Deliberate to +5% bonus (it should be more than 3% considering you're really digging in for defense), make Mediocre +2% and leave Hasty at 0%.

 

Air Units/Orders

 

- Upgrading Air Units should really be limited the same way Naval upgrade are with specific upgrade paths. You shouldn't be able to upgrade to completely different airframes. For example, upgrading a B-17A to one of the other B-17 variants (C, D, F, etc) should be pretty easy to do, but upgrading a B-17 to a B-29? Even though they're both Heavy Bombers, that's a whole different airframe.

 

- The OMA INT/NI could just be combined. Daylight only units could intercept during the day and Night units could intercept any time.

 

- The OMA Strike Recon is useless right now and people just do multiple TAS missions. Be nice if it was useful enough to use where you could actually sent out recon flights and your bombers would attack the best target that recon flight finds.

 

- Some Air units are extremely expensive to the point they're not even worth using, like Heavy Bombers, Transports and such. Maybe some tweaks to Aircraft factory output and plane costs.

 

- Be great if air units could be transferred to a different air base on their return from a normal air mission. Instead of having to waste a turn on a BT order, they could fly out from their original base, do their mission and return to a new base.

 

- I think, like Ground units, the 50 air group cap is a bit much for air divisions, that could be like 4000 planes Maybe drop it down to 10-25?

 

Naval Units/Orders

 

- I don't know why, but I've never found Naval units to be useful for anything other than moving troops and cargo around the map. Which is a shame, because full blown naval battles going back and forth like ground battles, would be awesome. What if Sea provinces were actually 'owned' by countries and offered some small resource benefits? Say food, or some minor resources. Then maybe folks would actually fight over the sea like they do the land provinces.

 

- If sea provinces are 'owned' by countries, NMI/NMP/AMI/AMP, etc orders should be more effective for the country that owns the sea zone since there will likely be other shipping (civilian, etc) out there that could tip off the military to enemy vessels.

 

- How about adding another target type to Coastal Bombardments to allow for the attacking of enemy ground units stationed in the province or city being bombarded. The Americans contantly shelled Japanese positions (and vice versa) in the Pacific.

 

 

General Military

 

- When a commander dies, he should automatically be replaced with someone promoted up from your replacement pool of officers.

 

- Create a 'Scavenge parts' order for air/ground units that will basically disband your most damaged units and reinforce your strongest units.

 

- Any unit that is about to run out of General supply would try to scrounge up supplies instead of 'starving' to death. Have divisions in locations that have access to GEN (locally or maybe through the AIC) draw at least one turns worth of GEN if it's available. I can't imagine thousands of GI's sitting in a city for two weeks starving when there's food sitting in a warehouse nearby. They'd find it

 

- Detailed battles should be turned on by default.

 

 

General Econonomic

 

- Have some sort of bonus to production based on your countries morale. People that are excited about your country's war prospects will work harder and if your country is taking a hammering, folks are going to be down in the dumps and not working as hard. Right now morale only matters if your negative or at the end game. Maybe shift the morale to a 1-100% rating?

 

- Allow the selling of divisions, supplies, etc. to Allies or TA's. Lend/Lease anyone?

 

- I'd like to see AIC's made 1 level larger (4 Deep) and made a bit smarter so they'll automatically try to re-route around broken AIC locations if possible.

 

- Make it so the RPD's actually cost money any time you try to find resources, but make them a bit cheaper.

 

- Landfront fortifications are expensive considering you can only face them one direction. Maybe lower their cost or set it so they'll defend from attacks coming in any direction.

 

Things to leave as is

 

- Leave the map the way it is, it's already great and fairly well balanced resource-wise. Of course, if you're going to add more countries to the mix...

 

- Leave the division upgrade/experience mechanic alone, it works well.

 

- The Training (TPL) system is fine as is.

 

- The Espionage system works fine now.

 

- While I hate mission cancellations, the Weather / Attrition system is pretty good now.

 

---

 

That's it for now...if there's anything I can do to help out, just let me know!

[Meatball]

Hmm, had one other idea. How about adding a simple "Research" cost to the game. Folks can put as little or as much money per turn into it that they want.

 

In addition to the amount of money dumped into research, I'd make 'luck' a random factor in it as well, but the research could eventually lead to the discovery and production of super-weapons. V1's, V2's, Nukes, Jet Bombers.

 

Items could be extremely expensive to produce once discovered and likely only towards the end of the game. You'd also want to diminish the effects of some of the weapons (nukes for example) just to make it so the first person to get them doesn't actually wipe the floor with everyone else or make it so the 'super weapons' are one shot. You discover the atom bomb, but once you use it, that's it for the rest of the game.

[Saint Michael]

I love most of the Ideas that I am reading.

 

Acouple of units suggestions---Russian Guards and over sized american inf. units.

 

I do like the Idea of the 12 div size armies.

 

There are alot of good ideas.

 

Victory II,here we come