WKE235 Posted October 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Interesting how this thread has evolved into a discussion on war, defense, xenophobia, and a few other topics. So, lets focus on the concept of players who are "running silent". Is it OK for you to play this game and not participate in message in the board or in groups and just try to keep to yourself? I think the general answer would be YES. Some might disagree, claiming this is a social game and contact between races is expected so you can't stay silent. Alright, contact will occur. But I see nothing wrong with a player staying as quiet as possible for as long as they wish, and even keeping the contacts they do get to a minimum relationship. If it's fun for them that way, great, enjoy the game. What about players who come into contact and refuse to communicate. I think this is a little trickier. We have not been playing enough in this game for unspoken rules to really come into play. For example, in one on-line game one of the unspoken rules was if someone does not reply to a message that you assume war. I lost many a troop to that rule before someone told the "newbie" what was going on. Since this game is still new (turn wise that is), there is no culture to the game yet that would help guide and dictate the rules of conduct so to speak. My own thought is it is not polite or not honorable to hide your contact information and fail to respond to contact messages (even to a minimal degree). I mean, when a player who hides their contact info is forwarded a message from RTG and they fail to respond to the message, just how should a player react? We know some people have dropped the game. And with no response we do not know if the empire is active or not. As people look for places to expand, maybe the culture of this game will develop a "No response = assumed dropped" type of rule. A player who is not responding so as to keep their email address hidden can respond by having a message returned through RTG. This keeps their anominity, while a simple message like "I do not seek contact at this point, please stay out of my star system" or "Bugger off and leave me alone" would be all the original player needed. Comments??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 You are probably right about the contact policy. without the MESS order it did not make sense but now that it is in place it is hard to avoid contact. The only item would be when did that order take effect and did this player have time to contact you ONCE the MESS order was in place. I'd laugh if a letter arrives by snail mail asking for diplomatic discussions (letter mailed from say Africa and came by boat) and the poor guy just got his turn with you blowing him up. Now granted most of the foreign players (if not all) would have to be on email turns so the point is moot but it does add some humour that out you go to your mail box and there is a letter with multi colored stamps that says...GREAT! I Meet someone. let's talk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Carpenter Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 My own thought is it is not polite or not honorable to hide your contact information and fail to respond to contact messages (even to a minimal degree). I mean, when a player who hides their contact info is forwarded a message from RTG and they fail to respond to the message, just how should a player react? We know some people have dropped the game. And with no response we do not know if the empire is active or not. As people look for places to expand, maybe the culture of this game will develop a "No response = assumed dropped" type of rule. A player who is not responding so as to keep their email address hidden can respond by having a message returned through RTG. This keeps their anominity, while a simple message like "I do not seek contact at this point, please stay out of my star system" or "Bugger off and leave me alone" would be all the original player needed. Great, Now we are going to make rules for how other players have to play the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Carpenter Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 I find this very interesting. We are to turn over our star data, answer all hails, play in a proper manner.... or Get blasted by complete accident. :lol: I my opinion, the GLS guy is the agressor, being afraid the two cruisers and character might come thru the warp point, and the other player actually going through the warp point are two entirly different things. Now that the fleet was accidently blown to hell, he will never know, but I find this attempt to get everyone to excuse his attack, becasue the other guy is not talking as idiotic. The GLS guy is the agressor so far. Why? Because you can not be an agressor doing nothing. The only person that has DONE, MOVED, ACTED, is the GSL guy. SO our oh so nice GSL player is blowing up stuff, and starting the war. Having said that, i would of sent the fleet also, and it would not of been by accident, and I would of known I was perhaps starting a war. Another Point. Since when is it totally horrible to have picket ships around your empire at warp points with shoot to kill orders? This is WAR? I think not, this is self preservation. Until someone is a friend they are a potential enemy, and the less intel they have about your area the better. In this instance, if it was me, I would of sent a fleet through to take out the cruiser, as i would of assumed the player was dropped. Now, seeing the two cruisers, i know he is not dropped, and that he does not want me to come through this warp point. Knowing this if I continue on, i am starting a war. If I retreat, then it is his move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKO Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Thanks for your responses Honored One Fethra, WKE and Gary. I am still very interested in other peoples positions. Kind regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted October 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 I didn't say we had to make rules for other players to live by. I was pointing out that most games do develop their own added rules as the players interact. One of the best examples of this is BSE (Beyond the Stellar Empire). When I tried to join BSE, the game had been running a very long time. I was quickly contacted by the leaders of all the long running major groups with the benefits of joining each. Included in many of the introductions was FAQ's on general game play (including rules outside the rules they had all come to agree on). The had guides for each group, even a sort of historical guide showing how some smaller groups had split off of larger ones. They had placed their own gaming universe and culture on top of the gaming rules to make it the game (those who remained) they wanted. The same thing will happen with SN over time (slowly due to the two week turns). As groups interact, the groups will work out agreements to avoid conflicts, agree to trade, and the like. These first agreements will become examples that others will build on, adjust, or use in further contacts or treaties. There will be many common items among the contacts, and these over time will bubble to the surface and recognized as such. They will become the defacto set of player imposed rules of conduct on the game. This is the way of life and the universe with people attempting to place order on top of chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octagon999 Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 The GLS guy is the agressor so far. Why? Because you can not be an agressor doing nothing. The only person that has DONE, MOVED, ACTED, is the GSL guy. SO our oh so nice GSL player is blowing up stuff, and starting the war. Actually, all the GSL player DID was warp in. It was the other guy who had "hot" encounter conditions. He could have had "fire if fire upon" conditions, but he didn't. He wanted a fight, and he got it. But he fired the first shot. No warning, just a 4cm autocannon round through the bridge. That makes the person warping in the aggressor? Sheesh. Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Ah, back to the fray! An unsurprising comment from the PA - who, and I have no problem with this, it would appear, have taken an uneqivocal stance of an intention to dominate the galaxy..... Luckily there is a defined 'game' answer, which I have implicitly assumed in my approach, to whom is an aggressor. To whit, if you have an ROE of 'S', or higher then you intend to kill anyone you meet at first contact. By this definition it is clearly the NSI that were the aggressors. Another Point. Since when is it totally horrible to have picket ships around your empire at warp points with shoot to kill orders? This is WAR? I think not, this is self preservation. Until someone is a friend they are a potential enemy, and the less intel they have about your area the better. But this one is the one I most feared to see! We watch all the movies and we see all the TV programmes, especially the Sci-Fi ones - is this what the US Hawks are really like and are there many playing the game? I know all Americans are not like this having interracted with some sterling ones over the last several months. If you don't think it's "horrible" to attempt to destroy the first visitor to our planet at first contact, then the human race had better self-destruct right now, because we have no place in the universe....... It's not self preservation, it's clear naked aggression. This is a game and if you want to play the 'Independance Day' style of alien, then go ahead. I and others will happily stand against you - why, because even though we are the good guys, we want to explore the armed conflict side of the game too and it's nice to have some enemies whom you feel justified, rather than run Live Fire for Real Exercises with your alliance mates. And we assume you'll come after us anyway. But whilst this is a Wargame, just like Go, Chess, Cricket and Football are all stylised warfare made civilised, it doesn't just have to be about Armed Conflict. The GSL is about seeing if this game, unlike many others, can be played with the other options for expansion - through peace and trade and exploration. Will we fight wars, I expect so. Man is a competative animal and we like to measure ourselves against others, even those of us who live in peace. And I suspect there's more than enough players out there who will play for just the warfare side of it, the piracy bit, or just the plain 'king of the hill' side of it. Be it known, there are some out there, and I count myself amongst them, like the GSL who will hope for peace and trade. We will welcome with open arms, but defend against 'aggression' and 'domination' My fleets are all on R orders (apart from some Q's from the beginning) and I will not shoot first. You can ask why they're not on P or Q and the answer is simple - it's because I don't want to have to submit 20 turnsheets when I meet someone who wants to 'play'..............I'll just declare them an enemy. The only time this would change is for the fleet that might have to intercept the alien who doesn't repsond to hails and carries on into my own systems regardless - that's also 'aggression'..... M2CW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Aleen Empire Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Hmmm.....carry a big Galatic Be-Good hammer, and NEVER strike first...but once first blood is drawn...THEN re-act accordingly... Beat on the aggressors balls with a big Galatic Be-Good hammer, until their balls whistle the Galatic Star Spangle Banner...... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 We watch all the movies and we see all the TV programmes, especially the Sci-Fi ones - is this what the US Hawks are really like and are there many playing the game? I know all Americans are not like this having interracted with some sterling ones over the last several months. Hmmm.....Falls over laughing. I would guess that in WWII if the Germans (say in 1939 early) had decided to fly bombers over the UK the British might have fired back. Of course perhaps Mr. Hygate is actually French at which point his entire logic makes sense because a surrender would have been issued. Your logic and application to US Hawks is an interesting one. The player above was inside (at least to the best of our knowledge) acceptable empire space territory per GSL bylaws..Or does the GSL claim 2 systems out for only themselves. He was defending his territory. You're alliance warped in. It doesn't matter if he fired first, second, never or anything else. Based on your logic if a battleship (and a cruiser by definition is a combat ship) WARPs into your home system(s) you will not fire unless fired upon. This is an excellent defensive strategy. Turn 1. Warp of Combat Ship Turn 2...Impulse 1. Ship Moves. GSL picket line wonders why/how the ennemy ship actually got out of the system (maybe it has multiple action points and a NTWD and executed Warp, SS, SURV and then MOVE, WARP... Turn 3....GSL Picket Line commander fired since now their is a cruiser behind the picket line. at the GSL Strategy. I can only hope I can find these tactical geniuses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Errm...no one has still heard from this supposed player of that empire, perhaps a computer run and russ aided position that has dropped? I know that dropped positions are set on defensive production and sometimes Russ gives them a looksee and bolsters them up a bit... And...I have multiple defensive fleets at so called gridpoints, ie waypoints of critical nature within my empire, these are set to fire if fired upon. At all outlying WPs there are sentinel fleets with no offensive capacity, they are there to mark a border and not to be missed by someone coming through. If someone passed these by full well and knowingly and continued through my markers without contacting me I would consider that a prelude to invasion and set my deployment fleets upon them and consider those borders at risk. WKE235 was not the one who had fleets on "kill everything in sight" settings and with his attempts to contact the player I cannot see what more he could have done. Sit and wait for the other guy to amass a huge fleet on the other side for recreational purposes only? Assume that he was either hostile or computer run?`Yeah, that was probably what I would've done. Make no mistake, the minute I run into another player I will send COD battle cruisers that way (Continuation Of Diplomacy) just to ensure that we each stay on our side of the fence while talking about how we approach the universe and gremloid cooking as will most players in this game. All in all, yeah, it was a bad first contact, but so have thousands through history been and if they get chatting they'll be talking about this over brewski further along in time. Oh and Mad Martin, you seem very upset for a piratical empire that believes in "friendship through firepower" and stated time upon time that your empire would gladly attack any GSL member if you ran into them even when you were a member, because that was how you intended to play your empire...so we know what to expect when Jack Crow meets the rest of the empires... All this talk of warring, battles and battle cruisers is quite upsetting for us pacifistic and peace loving gremloids so we shall go sit in a ring around a oaktree and sing kumba yah now! Cheers /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Aleen Empire Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Hmmm I guess your asuming that it was known that the other system was two away from the other player's HW. Damn I wish my Lvl-4 ESP told me such knowledge as yours must Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Oh yeah... We don't KNOW that it was his territory, home world or a distant nexus he thought was cute and wanted to bring home to his mama since HE HASN*T COMMUNICATED!!! It wasn't the alliance as whole, it was a member of our alliance, acting in his own capacity and right, exploring his part of the galaxy, keep those apart Mad Martin or better yet find another horse to beat! Perhaps we should start discussing all the things we know about the piratical strategies and tactics here? Nah, 'cause we're better than that and we promised to keep your stuff to ourselves when you left even if you couldn't keep that yourself... /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 T - You don't have cockroach ESP? On No! Locklyn - My real concern is that my poor, defenseless empire gets attacked by a mean GSL player and I can't resist. Please remember that I did WARP into a GSL system with my poor, weak Condor Love Bird and was shot at. ----------------- Reminder from a previous thread: With fear and trepidation The Eyre decided to send a lone colony ship out another system in the hopes of finding a good world. There were rumours of another war mongering alliance using our monicker of GSL. We feared for our fleet so we attached a light escort vessel barely able to handle the offensive weapons a pathfinder carries. We leapt through the system where we were attacked! Yes attacked by this dreaded other GSL. Fear swept through the ranks of our peaceful people. Desires for a better defense. Maybe a combat ship should be built? Finally saner heads prevailed and we, since we wear the "white hats" decided we would negotiate with this nefarious GSL group. We have decided that we will provide them aid. We desire only to be the good guys! I have asked our Foreign Minister Cao Cao to open dialogs. Perhaps these people have heard of the Gremloid home world. We have rescued millions of these innocent sentients who only desire to go home. Thank God we had added our strongest ship...a mere patrol boat to the Colony Fleet for protection. Maybe they had a reactor problem. Maybe the heavens protected us. ------------------- The Eyre # 2335 [Jolly Roger On A Black Background] --------------------[Deploy Location 7] 1 CVF Condor Predator Class (Frontier Carrier - 252,100 tons [each])------------ Fire Control: Minimal .. Maneuverability: Lumbering .. Sensors: Blind .. Shields: Feeble .. Structural Integrity: Sturdy 40 10cm Gauss Gun (Projectile) .... 10 Fighter Bay .... 10 Light Sonic Disruptor (Sonic) .... 100 Mk I Deflector .... 100 Mk I Force Shield .... 10 Mk I Thunderbolt Arc generator (Energy Discharge) .... 30,000 Titanium Composite Armor .... 5 Type B Defense Screen *****Notice my poor escort ship!********** --------------------[Deploy Location 7] 1 COLS Warpers (Small Colonial Transport - 34,200 tons [each])------------------ Fire Control: Minimal .. Maneuverability: Lumbering .. Sensors: Blind .. Shields: None .. Structural Integrity: Average ** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle ** --------------------[Deploy Location 7] 1 FS Pathfinder (Fleet Scout - 12,000 tons [each])------------------------------ Fire Control: Fair .. Maneuverability: Lumbering .. Sensors: Average .. Shields: None .. Structural Integrity: Sturdy 1 10cm Autocannon (Projectile) .... 1,200 Standard Hull Plate .... 1 Type A Defense Screen Attacked. We, a mere patrol boat escorting a transport!!!! Followed closely by a Small Colonial Transport, a Condor class Frontier Carrier emerges from a warp point in the ............ The Pride vessel gets off the first shot while The Eyre vessels materialize, but it is swarmed by hundreds of Attack Fighters and is blown into billions of tiny radioactive pieces…. Once again.....Here was an example of a GSL picket ship fireing upon me...a poor patrol boat.. Trembling in fear at the next GSL attack.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Aleen Empire Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Now Martin... Don't sit there and tell me that your main empire the "Pirate-Guys" have scout ships and the crew carry a Olive Branch in one hand, a Bong in the other, wearing Long hair, Multi-colored sun glasses, a cheap Peace Symbol necklass hanging about there necks, and a smile on their faces...with NO WEAPONS and CBT systems at all.... Oh please.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.