woolfe99 Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 At this point I think the issue has been debated to death. No new points have been made in the past 10 or posts. What happened, happened. Those who don't like the GSL will say that WKE was the agressor. Those who are in the GSL will say he wasn't. None of you outside the GSL would even know about this if WKE hadn't posted here, owning up to the incident and asking for diplomatic contact from the other party, and there wouldn't even be a debate. If some of you don't think the WARP was an error, fine. If WKE repeatedly makes "errors" in the future ("oops, I accidentally loaded up some troops, accidentally moved to his homeworld, and accidentally conquered him"), then we in the GSL will begin to doubt his credibility as well. For now though, given that we've all made stupid errors on our turns, we're giving him the benefit of the doubt. I think some people outside the GSL either resent or just plain don't like the "good guy" image, and relish any opportunity to argue that the actions of a GSL member indicate otherwise. At this point I think the PR stuff on both sides is becoming stale. When you outside the GSL encounter us in space, you can form your opinions then based upon our actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boo Consulate Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Much sophistry today. Our government's position is clear. If one claims territory and desires others to stay out then it is the duty of that race to give the Galaxy some sort of prior notification that it belongs to them and is not neutral space. We do not expect others to do as we have and broadcast their systems. Placing territory markers is sufficient. It is emphatically not the duty of hapless spacefarers in deep space to devine the exact dimentions of a mute race's territory. It is naked barbarism, regardless of how one spins it, to shot first and negotiate later. The NSI shot first at the Concordium vessels. How the Concordium deals with this act of war is its business and no one elses. We do believe it sings much about the general character of the Concordium that its government continues to seek discourse despite the persitant aggression of the NSI. Boo Consulate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 And now the true GSL comes out. Thank you Senor Boo for stating your position clearly. "defend your systems at your own peril" ----- To Mr. Locklyn: I tremble....what would you release? Is that a threat? And what couldn't I keep to myself? The fact that you promised to keep my info to yourself? Hmmm.... Has my info been shared among the GSL then...tisk tisk..and I had the assurance it would be kept quiet. Thank God you have little of my info...but oh what is this master star system file I have of GSL planets... Now that is a threat. Oh yeah... We don't KNOW that it was his territory, home world or a distant nexus he thought was cute and wanted to bring home to his mama since HE HASN*T COMMUNICATED!!! It wasn't the alliance as whole, it was a member of our alliance, acting in his own capacity and right, exploring his part of the galaxy, keep those apart Mad Martin or better yet find another horse to beat! Perhaps we should start discussing all the things we know about the piratical strategies and tactics here? Nah, 'cause we're better than that and we promised to keep your stuff to ourselves when you left even if you couldn't keep that yourself... /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolfe99 Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 T - You don't have cockroach ESP? On No! Locklyn - My real concern is that my poor, defenseless empire gets attacked by a mean GSL player and I can't resist. Please remember that I did WARP into a GSL system with my poor, weak Condor Love Bird and was shot at. ----------------- Reminder from a previous thread: With fear and trepidation The Eyre decided to send a lone colony ship out another system in the hopes of finding a good world. There were rumours of another war mongering alliance using our monicker of GSL. We feared for our fleet so we attached a light escort vessel barely able to handle the offensive weapons a pathfinder carries. We leapt through the system where we were attacked! Yes attacked by this dreaded other GSL. Fear swept through the ranks of our peaceful people. Desires for a better defense. Maybe a combat ship should be built? Finally saner heads prevailed and we, since we wear the "white hats" decided we would negotiate with this nefarious GSL group. We have decided that we will provide them aid. We desire only to be the good guys! I have asked our Foreign Minister Cao Cao to open dialogs. Perhaps these people have heard of the Gremloid home world. We have rescued millions of these innocent sentients who only desire to go home. Thank God we had added our strongest ship...a mere patrol boat to the Colony Fleet for protection. Maybe they had a reactor problem. Maybe the heavens protected us. ------------------- The Eyre # 2335 [Jolly Roger On A Black Background] --------------------[Deploy Location 7] 1 CVF Condor Predator Class (Frontier Carrier - 252,100 tons [each])------------ Fire Control: Minimal .. Maneuverability: Lumbering .. Sensors: Blind .. Shields: Feeble .. Structural Integrity: Sturdy 40 10cm Gauss Gun (Projectile) .... 10 Fighter Bay .... 10 Light Sonic Disruptor (Sonic) .... 100 Mk I Deflector .... 100 Mk I Force Shield .... 10 Mk I Thunderbolt Arc generator (Energy Discharge) .... 30,000 Titanium Composite Armor .... 5 Type B Defense Screen *****Notice my poor escort ship!********** --------------------[Deploy Location 7] 1 COLS Warpers (Small Colonial Transport - 34,200 tons [each])------------------ Fire Control: Minimal .. Maneuverability: Lumbering .. Sensors: Blind .. Shields: None .. Structural Integrity: Average ** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle ** --------------------[Deploy Location 7] 1 FS Pathfinder (Fleet Scout - 12,000 tons [each])------------------------------ Fire Control: Fair .. Maneuverability: Lumbering .. Sensors: Average .. Shields: None .. Structural Integrity: Sturdy 1 10cm Autocannon (Projectile) .... 1,200 Standard Hull Plate .... 1 Type A Defense Screen Attacked. We, a mere patrol boat escorting a transport!!!! Followed closely by a Small Colonial Transport, a Condor class Frontier Carrier emerges from a warp point in the ............ The Pride vessel gets off the first shot while The Eyre vessels materialize, but it is swarmed by hundreds of Attack Fighters and is blown into billions of tiny radioactive pieces…. Once again.....Here was an example of a GSL picket ship fireing upon me...a poor patrol boat.. Trembling in fear at the next GSL attack.... Uh, wasn't that GSL position you encountered dropped at the time? And isn't that the same position that was reactivated by a GSL member and you are now working with him doing some battle drills? You might have included those additional pieces of information along with the battle report. Given the addition of those facts, your remaining comments are too silly for further reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boo Consulate Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Admiral Crow This is a mischaracterization. The intended message is "remain silent at the peril of intergalactic peace and security." Another simple maxim that our government hopes will be recognized is: "Do not cry foul because someone stumbles upon your territory when you have failed to post 'no trespassing' or 'beware of angry domesticated animal' signs." We do not seek to impose our views on others. We do seek to pursuade the other spacefaring races to adopt a policy that is conducive to openess, trade, and friendship. Mostly we do not wish to be shot for no good reason. Shooting at the wayward explorer upon the first contact between two races is certainly not the best way to begin a relationship of trust and peace. Sovereign races may do as they will, but all should be forewarned not to fire upon the Boo. Boo Consulate GSL MEMBER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Aleen Empire Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Now now Martin...your being a Bad-Boy again!!! Now speaking for myself on this issue, it seems to me to have been a accident. Other than a ship being lost, if the other player would simply open up communication with the GSL player and start talking I am sure a peaceful solution can be worked out and maybe a start on a new friendship too. The posibilities for trade and etc are high, but it does help to have both parties talking. As for my approach to exploring, I tend to tread lightly and will not shoot first. If someone though shoots at me, I will return fire. Ok so what if my Scouts are all Light Cruiser class types or better, pays to be prepared in my view. As to my own personal views on system ownership, well it helps to have some type of System marker Beacon at each and every system WP. I tend to place this type of vessel at all WPs, and the fleets are usually named: Sym Chk Pt Beacon. Now they will return fire only if they are fired on first. If one gets destroyed, at least I know whom did it and can try to open up communication with them. If they continue on to destroying them, and refuse contact attemps...then well actions speak volumns to their motives. I will then deal with that issue Now Martin what will your "Pirate" Empire act like..."shoot first and Always"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 We are a peaceful empire. We shoot first of course. oopppss..I mean we talk first. :-) I would say sending a ship through and getting it shot down is a form of communication. Maybe not the preferred GSL one but it still is communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'Aleen Empire Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Well Martin as I have said before and will say again, despite all this "Puff and Fluff"...most likely your Bad Boy Pirates will never bump into any GSL player at all...with all that empty damn space in the galatic core, surrounded by all those dropped PC empires...you'd be lucky to find another active soul at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 but Penn my little pirate is in contact with a GSL player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boo Consulate Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Not only is being shot at not high on our list of desired communication, it is an act of war and will be treated as such. Communication after shooting would then take on the form of a remorseful suplicant begging for forgiveness for being so trigger happy. Boo Consulate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Ok, here I go again. First, I am not a GSL member, nor Phoenix Arisen, nor any alliance espoused on this Forum (except the HBOB of course!) I am also, NOT anti-them either. And frankly the Concordium and the NSI can deal with each other as they wish, however, I wish to enlighten everyone with our words! Actually, just thought I would inform you of Sabeli policy (empire 2996 BTW): ALL of my explorer vessels, are set to not fire unless fired upon. None are heavily armed (usually only 1 or 2 weapons) but most have defenses (shields, armor, etc.) These are my lead vessels and the ones that are going out 8-13 WP's from my HW. These are the ships you are going to run into first when entering Sabeli space ( or Sabeli going elsewhere). They are not hostile (my definition) and should I encounter another alien, I will attempt to make diplomatic contact. (as I have done once already, and nobody got blown up! ) Once contact has been established, it really depends on the nature of the discussions. Warships: My HW has all of its WP's armed to the teeth, with orders set to blow up anything that is not Sabeli. My Warships are set to Attack any alien that I do not have a diplomatic agreement with. My warships, DO NOT go wondering about the galaxy, but stay in KNOWN space. In fact, as a general rule, my warships stay in systems that I am colonizing. should someone warp into such a system, they will be attacked. Hey those are their orders. However, keep in mind, that the way 'my galaxy' is set up. It would be rare to run into one of my warships without running into an explorer vessel first. I also realize, that if I enter a WP (and yes the preferred Sabeli method is SURV and WARP in the same turn) I take a chance I may get vaporized by a black hole, radiation or an alien species. If I am blown up by an alien species, will I be upset? probably. but if I go back in without any contact it is for war. Now as a general rule of thumb, I am not a warmonger. Will I fight if I think it is necessary (or just plain fun) for the Sabeli. You bet! Sooo, to make a short story long, you will probably be treated by the Sabeli, the way you respond or react to us. And when it is all said and done, I may just buy you a beer (or even a root beer for those who "gasp" don't imbibe) Alcorn the Honored One Sabeli Ecok ps Please note that the above comments are the official comments of the Sabeli and are subject to change at any time for any reason the Sabeli feel are appropriate. -Sabeli Minister of Legal Disclaimers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Oh, One more thing. I think all of this discusion is good for the game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boo Consulate Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 Kurassier, We also think this is good for the game. Boo Consulate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boo Consulate Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 The Galaxy is filled with much diversity. Coming from such varried prospectives it is to be expected that all races will not agree on what constitutes sufficient claims to territory or on exactly what should be the requirements for first contact situations. One thing seems clear, with out comunication these differences can not be negotiated, either on a case by case basis, or on a multilateral one. Shooting first only invites one response: return fire. The Boo Consulate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Valwym Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 The GSL has lost the direction we had thought appropriate when we first joined! Woe be us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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