Earthling Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 David- I didnt know you were Persia! Enemies, just like game 85. Dageraad can color Algeria chocolate as you are TA with him. Tell Bulgaria to cede back the Algerian province so i can take it. Hopefully, I will actually be able to do something in this game. Allies~enemies, we all end up being both at one time or another in this game. Too small a community for it to be otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 That map is from seven weeks ago. A bit dated. You can see from any SIM POL that the UAE is TA'd to Lowlands, Syria, Transjordan and Iraq. THe UAE is presently at war with Saudi Arabia, Persia and Southern Russia so no change in coloration is required for. Or you should color the UAE red for its remaining TA with Lowlands. About the connection with Africa: it seems that you are my enemy. I heard that you are eager to fight me. Like in #87. And then the enemy of my enemy is probably going to wind up as my friend. There wasn't much fighting between us in 87.....not enough time for us to cross swords in any real significant manner. The moment you signed the TA's with my neighbors, our fighting was inevitable. I was happy to keep our alliance and let you fight it out with the Saudis, but not anymore. I am not sure I will be able to trust anything you ever say again and I certainly don't trust your maps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageraad Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 With both you are calling me a liar, and I take offense to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I take the last two things as an insult. You outright lied to me in this game. Period. That causes trust issues. The maps must take a lot of work and look tremendous. I wonder about them frequently and don't trust the accuracy level other than the cites that have fallen. The lines of progression ~ are they assumed or by actual knowledge? Or are those lines part of the propaganda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 The lines of progression ~ are they assumed or by actual knowledge? Or are those lines part of the propaganda? I for one have only played in the same game as Dag when his TA, and if anything i sometimes cringed at him depicting the lines TOO accurately, fearing it would give information away to our enemies. The only element Dag has fooled around with at times was the colour of alliances... that part depicts more often his take on how the world looks (disclaimer: full info is hard to come by) or how he wants the world to be perceived. Bottomline however, this IS the Propaganda Forum, meant to entertainingly communicate in an in-game way. You decide... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 The lines of progression ~ are they assumed or by actual knowledge? Or are those lines part of the propaganda? I for one have only played in the same game as Dag when his TA, and if anything i sometimes cringed at him depicting the lines TOO accurately, fearing it would give information away to our enemies. The only element Dag has fooled around with at times was the colour of alliances... that part depicts more often his take on how the world looks (disclaimer: full info is hard to come by) or how he wants the world to be perceived. Bottomline however, this IS the Propaganda Forum, meant to entertainingly communicate in an in-game way. You decide... Yes, how he wants the world to be perceived. I agree. I have known this to be very accurate ~ how he wants the world to be perceived. I have played in several games in which Dag kept the map. At first I liked it very much. Then I made the mistake of trusting the map as being, well, accurate. That won't happen again. We played game 90, for the vast majority of the game anyway, without the map. I found it refreshing. Now, I only see the map as a distraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spongebob Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Well I like the map, unless there is no yellow - seriously though Dagger does a good job In my opinion. Nobody asks for it to be done and it can only portray what he has been told. I have the greatest of respect for both EarThing and the Dagger, have played against both so I can only assume a misunderstanding has taken place. The map is there to be viewed or ignored, take it or leave it, but I would never treat it as gospel if my little yellow solders lives depended on it. Now where has the PTD gone, hes very quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Only reason Germany is whole again is because we vacated it to defend against green. Switzerland remains whole until the world report says otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Only reason Germany is whole again is because we vacated it to defend against green. Switzerland remains whole until the world report says otherwise... Glad to see your still kicking around, I was under the false impression you had picked up sticks and taken your ball home. Good on you - Tally Hoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Gadget Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't understand the friction between Earthling and Dageraad. War between them was inevitable. To fain disappointment is fine, but expressing shock seems silly. One question. Where was UAE supposed to go once he conquered S.A. and Turkey, S.R. and Persia defeated Syria, Iraq, Trans-Jordan? That was a train wreck just waiting to happen. As for the map, Dageraad is not an employee of RTG and thus is not bound by any requirement to make a map, much less an accurate one. Basically, it's cool to look at and to get a very general idea of what's going on, but placing too much faith in its accuracy or his comments is folly. We should all take it for what it is. Not for what we wish it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Leader Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't understand the friction between Earthling and Dageraad. War between them was inevitable. To fain disappointment is fine, but expressing shock seems silly. One question. Where was UAE supposed to go once he conquered S.A. and Turkey, S.R. and Persia defeated Syria, Iraq, Trans-Jordan? That was a train wreck just waiting to happen. As for the map, Dageraad is not an employee of RTG and thus is not bound by any requirement to make a map, much less an accurate one. Basically, it's cool to look at and to get a very general idea of what's going on, but placing too much faith in its accuracy or his comments is folly. We should all take it for what it is. Not for what we wish it was. UAE could have gone against Egypt. I was really looking forward to invading Baltic. Instead UAE has rallied nations to invade me by sharing battle reports with several nations. Rumors of my vulnerability are exaggerated. It is tough fighting 3 invaders at once though. Right Predator?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspector Gadget Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 But where would Persia and S.R. realistically gone? So if UAE got Egypt, Persia would have had to go naval. S.R. would have to do the same to the south or leap frogged through C.R. to go anywhere to its north. All possible, but hardly very appealing. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageraad Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Summary of my position in this war: From turn one it has been my purpose to fight a land war against Saudi Arabia. At that point I contacted Earthling. That was before both of us committed ourselves to TA's that make a confrontation inevitable. Persia committed to a TA to the north and west, I did the same with the Middle east. When Iraq ceded provinces and cities to the UAE Persia DW'd the UAE, of course. .But untill now that war has not been a hot one: well, I lost two or three planes to AAA and Earthling lost a whole sub to a standing patrol. A hot war between the UAE and Persia is logical and for both countries the only way out at the moment. Simply put: there is a power block to the north of me and a power block to the west, and as the UAE has no South or East. Fixed in his position Persia has no North or West exit. Cooperating with the northern block would block me when I get to Egypt as we all would have to squeeze through Suez. Its the same logic for Persia. Whe have to fight eachother. The problem is timing. As Saudi Arabia is a true neutral in this conflict and not connected to anyone. The war between the UAE and Saudi Arabia has mostly been about racing blindly in the desert, bumping into eachother now and then and with an air strike in between. That war is not over, though it is progressing in my favour. Persia has conquered Kuwait turns ago, so he could be in a position to intervene. But then, he would run the risk of bumping into the Saudi army and tilting the balance. I would not object to that, although a one on one war has its charm. On the other hand, he could catch me off guard and seriously damage UAE position, forcing me to fight both him and the Saudi's at the same time. Please don't do that. Now over to the map. It has one main purpose: to enliven the forum by regular imput. It does those things in two ways: it gives the RWE and some of the SIM POL for those that do not participate in this game and it is a way to present my comments in a structured form. Over the last years I have tried to improve the original, rather bland map with things like shaded coloring for occupied territories and front lines, but that brings problems. First of all: I do not know everything that is happening. A lot of the map is hearsay and conjecture. And I make mistakes. I have absolutely no idea about the true course of the war in Algeria or the intricacies of the Central Russian position, so do not presume that I am lying. I might simply not know better. Second: information is power. The map gives away free information. I want to prevent my TA's turning purple in the face. And I am sure that my ennemies would like to know every yard of the progress in Saudi Arabia, but sorry. There are limits to even my willingness to blurt everything out into the open. Third: there are some things that the map can't show. Each location has a city and a province. Should I show one? Both? what should I do when an Emirate MECH walks all the way to the Transjordan border, bypassing all the cities? (That would actually be a good move) How can I depict this on the map? I can't. Fourth: the map is skewered in some places. If Earthling and I ever have a nice confrontation in xKuhak (most easterly location on the map) I can not depict that properly. The desert beteen Saudi Arabia and the UAE is the only place were I cannot draw an accurate front line, as the UAE is more or less squeezed into itself by the boundary of the map. Fifth: Is the map propaganda? If you think so, feel free to present your own. It does not take hours to make one: you can simply use the existing file, I use the "fill" function of MS Paint to do most of my work and adapting a map costs me about 5 min. If you do not have the means to publish it simply mail it to me and I will. Spongebob once made his own maps that way and if people rovide me with the necessary background information and RWE I can provide them with a map. I did even do so for game 94 after I got kicked out. What's the propaganda value off that? Sixth: Don't you know that you can never trust strangers with a gift? Do not base important decisions on the map on this forum. Make your own decisions and do your own research. A lot of players use their own,map, with far more detail than this one. So do I. Seventh: Never trust politicians bearing maps. Even if they are only part-time and local. As we say over here in Hengelo "Nice map, now we know what it does not look like in reality", Eight: About that: Vote for Me!!!!!! You know it is the right choice!!!!! Ninth: I still resent being called a liar. Tenth: I om not an alias of Spongebob. Though sometimes I feel a bit bubbly and light. Especially on friday night after a certain amount of Glenlivet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spongebob Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 At this point I wish to point out that Dageraad is not one of my personalities, after that rant I can understand the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Ninth: I still resent being called a liar. All politicians do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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