Official: Turns Are In Thread

[Locklyn]

Yeah, unfortunately, and this is why one has to have Gatekeeper fleets on all sides of wormholes to prevent bad things from happening.

 

/Locklyn

[cestvel]

A few notes on gate losses.

 

First, no player has anywhere near the maximum tech possible for loss reduction. This is fairly obvious because it is not possible for an empire to have researched the new more advanced lines of Universal Gate and Planetary Cargo Gate techs since they were just added to the game last turn. As per the notes at the top of the previous turn cycle, "Mk IV, V and VI versions of both Planetary Cargo Gate and Universal Gate technologies have been added to the game."

 

Second, distance is not determined by jumps, which can be extremely arbitrary when considering potential one-way warp lines, but by true distance between the stars involved. This reveals an interesting way to pin down the exact relative locations of any pair of stars, among other things.

 

Losses can be reduced quite significantly once you achieve the higher appropriate tech levels. Planetary Cargo Gates realize unusually good benefits, as in-system item transport is not an issue. As per last turn's notes, "Achieving higher levels of tech advancement in PCG and UG technology is highly recommended to avoid severe losses."

 

I had 6% with one PG->UG transfer in-system and one at 13% with the same race and conditions.

Why is that? Or have basic resources an other loss rate attached to them? first were basic resources, the other were ACM.

[cestvel]

For game balance I am glad that gate loss has been implemented.

This will hopefully put an end to core players abusing this tech and transferring vast amounts of high tech items to there newer empires set-up in relatively junior areas of space.

 

While it technically was not cheating it definitely has given certain players an unfair advantage and has spoilt the game for many (myself included).

 

I look forward to fighting on a fairer playing field in the future.

 

How often should I reiterate to you, that the components on the fleets are all build and used by one and the same empire?

 

It is just about 1 year older than yours.

 

The new gate system only means my ships now cannot be build on the HW nearest to you, but on my original HW, needing about 1-2 turns longer now to reach you. But I think the fleet which has now taken the KomKa HW skies will be suffice for now

 

So quit whining, please. You are not on the abused end of Gate Transfers. Maybe Pete can onfirm, that

all Components of that ship can be build by the empire using it. (ok, the fighters got custom build by a local ally while I provided the materials)

[HumVie]

I did not participate in using spies to fly around to places they didn't belong even through I know our group lost important information because of this problem.

 

I was not happy with the modifications to how wormholes worked when it was found to be nothing like the tech discription. I however was the biggest inside our group

to finding solutions and working around it. This was even as enemy ships were using our network to slip troop ships behind our lines.

 

Now I find myself with the Universal gate (U-gate) situation. Once again it cripples our cargo movements with the method of implementation.

 

The author Stephen Crane ("Red Badge of Courage") once said, " When your angry, you'll make the best speech you will ever regret". This is something I believe in. My allies and I will be discussing this over the next few days. It may well be as Gary says a game breaker for us.

 

If it is, it has been a pleasure playing with all you. I wish you the best in the future.

 

Good Cheer,

Rick

[Coconutheads]

Bear in mind as your group discusses this new development that EVERYONE now operates under these same loss rates, not just you guys. So while you may not be able to transfer scads of materials around anymore, neither can anyone else.

 

Know that if you guys exit the game, we will miss you. Some of your guys (Black Cloud in particular) have been our favorite punching bags and source of new citizens for our mines/industries. Know that they have been put to excellent use in their new homes and sabotage was kept to a minimum!!

 

 

I did not participate in using spies to fly around to places they didn't belong even through I know our group lost important information because of this problem.

 

I was not happy with the modifications to how wormholes worked when it was found to be nothing like the tech discription. I however was the biggest inside our group

to finding solutions and working around it. This was even as enemy ships were using our network to slip troop ships behind our lines.

 

Now I find myself with the Universal gate (U-gate) situation. Once again it cripples our cargo movements with the method of implementation.

 

The author Stephen Crane ("Red Badge of Courage") once said, " When your angry, you'll make the best speech you will ever regret". This is something I believe in. My allies and I will be discussing this over the next few days. It may well be as Gary says a game breaker for us.

 

If it is, it has been a pleasure playing with all you. I wish you the best in the future.

 

Good Cheer,

Rick

[Coconutheads]

Pete,

 

As you stated, no one has developed Mk VI U Gate tech so we can't know the final loss rate until getting there. However I surmise the prevailing thought is that if an empire already has Mk III U Gates built on both sides and they are realizing 100% loss rates, how much good will developing Mk VI's do? Instead of a 100% loss will we put all the research effort in only to see a 75% loss rate (rhetorical question I wouldn't expect an answer).

 

Regarding distance... I believe that it could only help people to better understand 'distance' calculations if they had an idea where they are located in the universe. This is particularly true in light of the introduction of hella-major loss rates now associated with Ugates (in the past I think that knowledge would not have made much difference). Would you reconsider providing this info to everyone? As movement in-game is limited to 'natural' wormholes and Stable Wormholes (eg:there is no way for anyone to employ cartesian-type movement), I'm not sure how it could harm the game to have this information provided that everyone receives the info about their systems.

 

Thanks Pete!!

 

A few notes on gate losses.

 

First, no player has anywhere near the maximum tech possible for loss reduction. This is fairly obvious because it is not possible for an empire to have researched the new more advanced lines of Universal Gate and Planetary Cargo Gate techs since they were just added to the game last turn. As per the notes at the top of the previous turn cycle, "Mk IV, V and VI versions of both Planetary Cargo Gate and Universal Gate technologies have been added to the game."

 

Second, distance is not determined by jumps, which can be extremely arbitrary when considering potential one-way warp lines, but by true distance between the stars involved. This reveals an interesting way to pin down the exact relative locations of any pair of stars, among other things.

 

Losses can be reduced quite significantly once you achieve the higher appropriate tech levels. Planetary Cargo Gates realize unusually good benefits, as in-system item transport is not an issue. As per last turn's notes, "Achieving higher levels of tech advancement in PCG and UG technology is highly recommended to avoid severe losses."

[RTGPete]

Pete,

 

As you stated, no one has developed Mk VI U Gate tech so we can't know the final loss rate until getting there. However I surmise the prevailing thought is that if an empire already has Mk III U Gates built on both sides and they are realizing 100% loss rates, how much good will developing Mk VI's do? Instead of a 100% loss will we put all the research effort in only to see a 75% loss rate (rhetorical question I wouldn't expect an answer).

 

Regarding distance... I believe that it could only help people to better understand 'distance' calculations if they had an idea where they are located in the universe. This is particularly true in light of the introduction of hella-major loss rates now associated with Ugates (in the past I think that knowledge would not have made much difference). Would you reconsider providing this info to everyone? As movement in-game is limited to 'natural' wormholes and Stable Wormholes (eg:there is no way for anyone to employ cartesian-type movement), I'm not sure how it could harm the game to have this information provided that everyone receives the info about their systems.

 

Thanks Pete!!

 

A few notes on gate losses.

 

First, no player has anywhere near the maximum tech possible for loss reduction. This is fairly obvious because it is not possible for an empire to have researched the new more advanced lines of Universal Gate and Planetary Cargo Gate techs since they were just added to the game last turn. As per the notes at the top of the previous turn cycle, "Mk IV, V and VI versions of both Planetary Cargo Gate and Universal Gate technologies have been added to the game."

 

Second, distance is not determined by jumps, which can be extremely arbitrary when considering potential one-way warp lines, but by true distance between the stars involved. This reveals an interesting way to pin down the exact relative locations of any pair of stars, among other things.

 

Losses can be reduced quite significantly once you achieve the higher appropriate tech levels. Planetary Cargo Gates realize unusually good benefits, as in-system item transport is not an issue. As per last turn's notes, "Achieving higher levels of tech advancement in PCG and UG technology is highly recommended to avoid severe losses."

The difference between Mk III and Mk VI Universal Gate technology for nearby homeworld sorts of UG transfers is substantial (far, far better than dropping losses from 100% to 75%, for instance). For crazy long distance transfers, well, you're going to eat heavy losses no matter what you do (game balance pretty much requires that). I'd certainly recommend running up to Mk VI UG tech quickly if gate transfers are considered critical.

 

Hmmm, giving out XYZ's for stars opens up the problem of being able to predict homeworld locations, and that could have bad side-effects.

 

The idea on loss rates is to heavily punish crazy long distance transfer of items but not severely punish transfers between nearby homeworlds (hw's one ring out from your homeworld, for instance) that you might have conquered. That way, you can centralize production easily by using UG's. Losses become extremely reasonable in such cases with Mk VI UG's.

[HumVie]

Bear in mind as your group discusses this new development that EVERYONE now operates under these same loss rates, not just you guys. So while you may not be able to transfer scads of materials around anymore, neither can anyone else.

 

Know that if you guys exit the game, we will miss you. Some of your guys (Black Cloud in particular) have been our favorite punching bags and source of new citizens for our mines/industries. Know that they have been put to excellent use in their new homes and sabotage was kept to a minimum!!

 

 

I did not participate in using spies to fly around to places they didn't belong even through I know our group lost important information because of this problem.

 

I was not happy with the modifications to how wormholes worked when it was found to be nothing like the tech discription. I however was the biggest inside our group

to finding solutions and working around it. This was even as enemy ships were using our network to slip troop ships behind our lines.

 

Now I find myself with the Universal gate (U-gate) situation. Once again it cripples our cargo movements with the method of implementation.

 

The author Stephen Crane ("Red Badge of Courage") once said, " When your angry, you'll make the best speech you will ever regret". This is something I believe in. My allies and I will be discussing this over the next few days. It may well be as Gary says a game breaker for us.

 

If it is, it has been a pleasure playing with all you. I wish you the best in the future.

 

Good Cheer,

Rick

 

Well, I can make you this offer if you want and others would agree. We can square off the current Murean Holdfast against the current Coconutheads empire. Just the two of us, no allies, no side conquests. It would be interesting to see who would win. Maybe you, maybe me. Either way it would be interesting.

 

-Rick

[Flagritz]

For game balance I am glad that gate loss has been implemented.

This will hopefully put an end to core players abusing this tech and transferring vast amounts of high tech items to there newer empires set-up in relatively junior areas of space.

 

While it technically was not cheating it definitely has given certain players an unfair advantage and has spoilt the game for many (myself included).

 

I look forward to fighting on a fairer playing field in the future.

 

How often should I reiterate to you, that the components on the fleets are all build and used by one and the same empire?

 

It is just about 1 year older than yours.

 

The new gate system only means my ships now cannot be build on the HW nearest to you, but on my original HW, needing about 1-2 turns longer now to reach you. But I think the fleet which has now taken the KomKa HW skies will be suffice for now

 

So quit whining, please. You are not on the abused end of Gate Transfers. Maybe Pete can onfirm, that

all Components of that ship can be build by the empire using it. (ok, the fighters got custom build by a local ally while I provided the materials)

 

<g> you know the universe does not revolve around you, wow someone is feeling guilty! :}

 

But as you brought it up....

Me and most of the players you are attacking have been in the game 3 years, we average level 6 tech across the board (with some level 7 items emerging), ICE & Deep core surveyors are pretty new. we are each operating shipping fleets that total around 30-50 million tons of shipping (that includes cargo ships) per empire.

 

Your fleet has 10th generation computers, shields and two level 10 weapon types, it has 15th generation engines, plus level 7 armour and a few level 6 components.

Your fleet is over 300 million tons.

 

You have offered UG trades with some of the players I do info trades with from that position. You honestly expect me to belive that you havent made use of the UG's?

 

However if it makes you feel better, my message was not targeted... just at you :}

[cestvel]

For game balance I am glad that gate loss has been implemented.

This will hopefully put an end to core players abusing this tech and transferring vast amounts of high tech items to there newer empires set-up in relatively junior areas of space.

 

While it technically was not cheating it definitely has given certain players an unfair advantage and has spoilt the game for many (myself included).

 

I look forward to fighting on a fairer playing field in the future.

 

How often should I reiterate to you, that the components on the fleets are all build and used by one and the same empire?

 

It is just about 1 year older than yours.

 

The new gate system only means my ships now cannot be build on the HW nearest to you, but on my original HW, needing about 1-2 turns longer now to reach you. But I think the fleet which has now taken the KomKa HW skies will be suffice for now

 

So quit whining, please. You are not on the abused end of Gate Transfers. Maybe Pete can onfirm, that

all Components of that ship can be build by the empire using it. (ok, the fighters got custom build by a local ally while I provided the materials)

 

<g> you know the universe does not revolve around you, wow someone is feeling guilty! :}

 

But as you brought it up....

Me and most of the players you are attacking have been in the game 3 years, we average level 6 tech across the board (with some level 7 items emerging), ICE & Deep core surveyors are pretty new. we are each operating shipping fleets that total around 30-50 million tons of shipping (that includes cargo ships) per empire.

 

Your fleet has 10th generation computers, shields and two level 10 weapon types, it has 15th generation engines, plus level 7 armour and a few level 6 components.

Your fleet is over 300 million tons.

 

You have offered UG trades with some of the players I do info trades with from that position. You honestly expect me to belive that you havent made use of the UG's?

 

However if it makes you feel better, my message was not targeted... just at you :}

 

Well, to my knowledge you only run three empires. All in the same region of space. So yes, I assumed you meant me as spoiling your game.

 

I have UGs, but I did no transfers of advanced technology to this one we speak about. That one is actually my most advanced one (60 Scientists help there).

 

Now you know how the KomKa felt, didn't you?

 

Ask Pete if the technology you talk about is researched by the empire in question. I must admitt, the Mk IV JSS is from one of my other position in the area (found a cache of them early (I think it was 20 or so) and then met my other empire which provided another 50 or so.

 

Sure I used the UG to funnel resources from my other conquered HWs, but not advanced technology as you accuse me about. Just ask Pete (Pete, I give hereby permission, that you can verify the tech the ship consists of is researched by the empire the ship belongs to.)

 

I kept this a one on one (an unfair one, but still ).

 

First turn of my empire was May 19, 2004, so it is now about 5 years old. Looks like I am ahead a year more than I thought.

[Gary Carpenter]

Pete,

 

As you stated, no one has developed Mk VI U Gate tech so we can't know the final loss rate until getting there. However I surmise the prevailing thought is that if an empire already has Mk III U Gates built on both sides and they are realizing 100% loss rates, how much good will developing Mk VI's do? Instead of a 100% loss will we put all the research effort in only to see a 75% loss rate (rhetorical question I wouldn't expect an answer).

 

Regarding distance... I believe that it could only help people to better understand 'distance' calculations if they had an idea where they are located in the universe. This is particularly true in light of the introduction of hella-major loss rates now associated with Ugates (in the past I think that knowledge would not have made much difference). Would you reconsider providing this info to everyone? As movement in-game is limited to 'natural' wormholes and Stable Wormholes (eg:there is no way for anyone to employ cartesian-type movement), I'm not sure how it could harm the game to have this information provided that everyone receives the info about their systems.

 

Thanks Pete!!

 

A few notes on gate losses.

 

First, no player has anywhere near the maximum tech possible for loss reduction. This is fairly obvious because it is not possible for an empire to have researched the new more advanced lines of Universal Gate and Planetary Cargo Gate techs since they were just added to the game last turn. As per the notes at the top of the previous turn cycle, "Mk IV, V and VI versions of both Planetary Cargo Gate and Universal Gate technologies have been added to the game."

 

Second, distance is not determined by jumps, which can be extremely arbitrary when considering potential one-way warp lines, but by true distance between the stars involved. This reveals an interesting way to pin down the exact relative locations of any pair of stars, among other things.

 

Losses can be reduced quite significantly once you achieve the higher appropriate tech levels. Planetary Cargo Gates realize unusually good benefits, as in-system item transport is not an issue. As per last turn's notes, "Achieving higher levels of tech advancement in PCG and UG technology is highly recommended to avoid severe losses."

The difference between Mk III and Mk VI Universal Gate technology for nearby homeworld sorts of UG transfers is substantial (far, far better than dropping losses from 100% to 75%, for instance). For crazy long distance transfers, well, you're going to eat heavy losses no matter what you do (game balance pretty much requires that). I'd certainly recommend running up to Mk VI UG tech quickly if gate transfers are considered critical.

 

Hmmm, giving out XYZ's for stars opens up the problem of being able to predict homeworld locations, and that could have bad side-effects.

 

The idea on loss rates is to heavily punish crazy long distance transfer of items but not severely punish transfers between nearby homeworlds (hw's one ring out from your homeworld, for instance) that you might have conquered. That way, you can centralize production easily by using UG's. Losses become extremely reasonable in such cases with Mk VI UG's.

 

"The idea on loss rates is to heavily punish crazy long distance transfer of items but not severely punish transfers between nearby homeworlds (hw's one ring out from your homeworld, for instance) that you might have conquered. That way, you can centralize production easily by using UG's"

 

BS BS BS our whole alliance tested all our HW's each possible connection and only 2 had less than 100 percent loss, those two were 51 and 71 percent loss. HOW DO WE KNOW ANY of the rest are not " crazy long distance transfers" ???

[Flagritz]

Ask Pete if the technology you talk about is researched by the empire in question. I must admitt, the Mk IV JSS is from one of my other position in the area (found a cache of them early (I think it was 20 or so) and then met my other empire which provided another 50 or so.

 

Well I am shocked.... The person who was so vocal against players using and coordinating multiple empires has two empires in the same area of space...... well I dont know what to make of that..... you say one thing......

 

 

First turn of my empire was May 19, 2004, so it is now about 5 years old. Looks like I am ahead a year more than I thought.

 

First turn for the Flagritz was July 26th 2006.... they have almost reached their third birthday :}

 

 

Just ask Pete (Pete, I give hereby permission, that you can verify the tech the ship consists of is researched by the empire the ship belongs to.)

 

 

I very much doubt Pete is going to answer that and you know it, however Im sure the self proclaimed champion of the 'kom ka' is beyond reproach so lets leave it at that :]

[cestvel]

Well I am shocked.... The person who was so vocal against players using and coordinating multiple empires has two empires in the same area of space...... well I dont know what to make of that..... you say one thing......

 

First turn of the "other" empire was June 15, 2005. Over a year later!

They are 32 jumps apart!

They provided the JSS, as this is the only part where they are more advanced

And they have no Gate at all as of yet, not even one sponsored by my other one.

Oh and the KomKa HW is 40 jumps away.

 

I think this is in completely another league than starting 3 close together at the same time and using all

three early on to go against a technically inferior oponent.

 

I told you on our first sigting as you threatened me about the might of your connected empire, that I was sure I could handle them.

 

If this will grow into a war against the entire LNAW (which it is not as of yet), I *will* bring in my other positions as well, of course.

[Flagritz]

I think this is in completely another league than starting 3 close together at the same time and using all

three early on to go against a technically inferior oponent.

 

<g> of course it is..... you say Potatoe I Say Potato its completely different :}

Hey check the forum posts, we were the same technologically, infact he had a counter to my weapon, I had no counter! :}

 

However then again you are the expert when it comes to using multiple empires against a technically inferior opponent arent you.... again though its, say one thing do another right? :}

 

 

If this will grow into a war against the entire LNAW (which it is not as of yet), I *will* bring in my other positions as well, of course.

 

 

Well thats one way to reduce the player base of the game :]

 

At least players like the pirates etc are honest when they attack people, they dont try and take the moral high ground, they just come out and say 'Im a warmonger, deal with it' Go on say it.... you know you want to....

[cestvel]

I think this is in completely another league than starting 3 close together at the same time and using all

three early on to go against a technically inferior oponent.

 

<g> of course it is..... you say Potatoe I Say Potato its completely different :}

Hey check the forum posts, we were the same technologically, infact he had a counter to my weapon, I had no counter! :}

 

However then again you are the expert when it comes to using multiple empires against a technically inferior opponent arent you.... again though its, say one thing do another right? :}

 

 

If this will grow into a war against the entire LNAW (which it is not as of yet), I *will* bring in my other positions as well, of course.

 

 

Well thats one way to reduce the player base of the game :]

 

At least players like the pirates etc are honest when they attack people, they dont try and take the moral high ground, they just come out and say 'Im a warmonger, deal with it' Go on say it.... you know you want to....

 

 

 

 

 

Just ask the three empires I passed through on the way towards your space

Just ask how I acted towards my neighbours.

Just asked the member of LNAW who met my other position before I knew he was LNAW.

Just ask the people who met any of my empires.

 

This one is plain personal.

 

And you were a techlevel higher in weapons iirc, and you clearly build

up your warships early on for an offensive purpose.