woolfe99 Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 I bought level 4 ESP with my first race, and while I agree that you get the whole package or none at all, until further notice I think that none at all is the best option unless it's a roleplaying issue for you. Techwise, so far no one has discovered anything but MDD's, and IMO MDD's are virtually worthless, especially when you can get MDD's that are not related to mental powers. The mental powers MDD's may be better, but so what? MDD's are cheap, and you can just build more. My guess is that if there is anything other than MDD's, it will come from the tier 5 and 6 mental powers horizon techs. However, no one knows how to get those yet. And even when we figure it out, it may just be more powerful MDD's. There does indeed seem to be a fairly hefty bonus on the expl orders (my starting race with phenomenal senses and lvl 4 ESP hits about 60% with type A labs and no explorer character on board). However, a low expl hit rate is not a big deal. Expl ships aren't *that* expensive. You can just build more in quantity to make up for the low hit rate. In addition, there are undoubtedly some ground tech tac bonuses, which are not yet showing up in the TAC order results but presumably will be. To me, a bonus in 1 tactical area of ground combat out of 20 possible bonuses is probably not a crushing advantage in ground combat, and ground combat is not nearly as important as space combat. You also probably get a diplomacy bonus, which again is not any kind of major advantage. There may be some other, very small bonuses like in warp surveys for example (though this is unknown and unconfirmed). The mental powers are appropriately priced. They aren't very expensive, and you don't really get that much for them. Still, in all, I'd rather have it as SRP's, research mod, or CB's. - woolfe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Woolfe / Octagon - I appreciate the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 The mental powers are appropriately priced. They aren't very expensive, and you don't really get that much for them. Still, in all, I'd rather have it as SRP's, research mod, or CB's. The joys of 20/20 hindsight ... if I knew then, what I know now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 I believe the data that I have indicates that mental powers are indeed beneficial in the exploration part of the game. I would not likely start another position with some of them as finding items is a lot of fun and gives increadible insight into the tech system. I wouldn't buy any mental powers at less than level 4 however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolfe99 Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 The mental powers are appropriately priced. They aren't very expensive, and you don't really get that much for them. Still, in all, I'd rather have it as SRP's, research mod, or CB's. The joys of 20/20 hindsight ... if I knew then, what I know now. True, but to be fair to Pete, the low cost should have been a clue in that mental powers would not be a big thing. 200 lifeform points buys you what in other areas? Maybe like +2CB for example. +2 CB alone would not make you a good or even average colonizer. If you got major bonuses for the mental powers, there would be an imbalance. I would personally prefer to see them cost more and give more benefit, but as it is it's probably in balance. I never expected big bonuses from the lvl 4 mental power, but what I had hoped was that it would open up a reseach avenue or two to get something unique, besides the MDD's. Who knows, maybe that's in the future when we figure out how to get to the tier 5 mental powers techs. Until then, ho humm. - woolfe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I think the decision on this needs to be related to what you are going to do research wise and your overall racial design. Plunking down lots of points for level 4 ESP might give you some explore, dip, even combat bonuses. But unless you intened to research that branch of science, the points would be more useful (depending on your goals) as SRP or on other racial traits. Think about it. Level 4 ESP may give you various unknown bonuses to Dip, Explore, Combat, etc... But lets say you want to be a colonizer. Low or High gravity tolerance for 190 would give you colonization plus other bonuses (playing to your strength in exchange for the Dip/explore/unknown bonuses). Or maybe you intend to be Warlord Supreme. Then Natural Ferocity for 95 and Thick Scales for 90 for lots of combat bonuses would be more to your liking. Remember that not selecting mental powers leaves a lot of points for other racial or SRP choices, as well as giving you a little bit of protection. Even the rules warn that it is not advisable to acquire mental powers unless you plan on putting some effort into developing them. Getting them and doing very little leaves you more vulnerable to others with mental powers who have developed them .. more so than if you had no such powers. SO .. either you go for them and go for the gusto from start .. or skip them all togehter. Any other sort of half-way choices will probably hurt you over the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 The tough part is when you don't have a clue as how to train your mental powers or choose those paths that the rules speak about... /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossroads Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 The tough part is when you don't have a clue as how to train your mental powers or choose those paths that the rules speak about... /Locklyn If i understand correctly, you cannot train your mental powers from the beginning? I thought i saw in an overview that there are no requirements? What is needed to train mental powers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I think he meant expand or increase the effectiveness or usefulness of mentals rather than train. Right now, you either have them or you don't. The only immediately accessable technology they can be applied to are MDDs (i.e. Howler bombs). Who know what the future holds? Psychic Web Fleet Scanners? Telekinetic Shields? Precognitive Pulse CIDS? :lol: -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossroads Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I think he meant expand or increase the effectiveness or usefulness of mentals rather than train. Right now, you either have them or you don't. The only immediately accessable technology they can be applied to are MDDs (i.e. Howler bombs). Who know what the future holds? Psychic Web Fleet Scanners? Telekinetic Shields? Precognitive Pulse CIDS? :lol: -SK Ok, let me refrase: if you have the telepathics ability, say level 4, can you research 1st Generation Telepathics from turn one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laserwolf Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I think he meant expand or increase the effectiveness or usefulness of mentals rather than train. Right now, you either have them or you don't. The only immediately accessable technology they can be applied to are MDDs (i.e. Howler bombs). Who know what the future holds? Psychic Web Fleet Scanners? Telekinetic Shields? Precognitive Pulse CIDS? :lol: -SK Ok, let me refrase: if you have the telepathics ability, say level 4, can you research 1st Generation Telepathics from turn one? If you start with Level 4 Telepathy, you already know 1st, 2nd & 3rd Generation Telepathics. You can immediately begin researching 4th Generation Telepathics. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 If you start with Level 4 Telepathy, you already know 1st, 2nd & 3rd Generation Telepathics. You can immediately begin researching 4th Generation Telepathics. Actually, if you start with Level 4 Telepathy, you already know 4th Generation Telepathics. All you can research are the MDD bomb's, so far. OH, and you are all getting veeerrrryy sleeeeeppppy after drinking all that beer, ssslleeeeeeppppp...... See, mental powers at work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokmok Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 From the desription of Mental Powers in the Rules it seems that you have to spend a considerably amount of research to get anything out of your mental powers. I would think that Psychology science, life science, medical science, Adv Genetics and techs like those eventually should open up some mental research items. So far I have only heard comments from people researching industrial science, engines and some weapons. Isn´t there someone out there wo have spend SRP on those above mentioned sciences? tokmok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 If you start with Level 4 Telepathy, you already know 1st, 2nd & 3rd Generation Telepathics. You can immediately begin researching 4th Generation Telepathics. Actually, if you start with Level 4 Telepathy, you already know 4th Generation Telepathics. All you can research are the MDD bomb's, so far. Really? My race has a Level 4 power and 4th Generation not 5th Generation showed up on my research list. I will be most upset if I have been researching something I should already know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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