cestvel Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I admit, a battle against all teh LNAW would be fun but really timeconsuming and costly (real $$$). And by the time I have found the odd other HW (I got intel from the KomKa which made it easier to find their HW and he kept his spies active, so I know the Flagritz HW as well ), the LNAW empires will have caught on in tech But I will first to find and go after the Flagritz HW I know of. Then we will see how all the empires in the region will react and what the KomKa player will do. Who knows, maybe he is the Spongebob type and will kill himself off in a few turns all by himself I started my journey while the Flagritz were fielding Medium Grasers and Vananite, now they are fielding big fleets with Trizenium and Siege Grasers. Oh and he started the hot war by killing off two of my surveyer BC's It would have been much harder for me to keep the white hat without that I told him from the start, that I would not discuss any borders with him. So I played with open cards. But it seems he took all this a bluff on my side and not for real, till he saw the tech on the BC's and esp. the nice Vigilante, which was of course more advanced than the scouts, which were started about 8 month back. Marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breoghan Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ok, I'll step back and see what happens with the Kom Ka, if you manage to take that world back from Flagritz. My points remain valid, but you give the impression you're going to expect him to stand on his own two feet. I can live with that as far as the Kom Ka are concerned. I don't go looking for trouble without reason, but I will say that he is getting back into his original position in the game under false pretenses, and leave it at that. The point about the Kom Ka being taken by the combined fleets of a single player? Slightly shakier ground, I think. Are you saying a player can't do intra-position trading for weapons and equipment? That would be no different than trading with neighbours with approximately similar tech levels (again I'll point out that tech levels are a matter of luck and choice in the broad sense, no two positions have the same in all things) - even focussed research between allies to have one position researching one thing while others do something else, can be found amongst mere allies rather than joint positions of a single player. Saying a player shouldn't use every resource he has when in combat is a little like saying he should only go into a fight after making sure that everything was absolutely equal - whereas in the real world you use stratgems and tactics to wrongfoot and hit the enemy at their weakest point; it's like saying a boxer with more beef than his opponent should tie one hand behind his back, just to be fair..... and no, I don't see that as the same thing as your having come effectively through a time warp to hit Flagritz (you skipped over the bit about you planning to stay in the region - with your tech levels no player locally could 'catch you up', tech-wise). Local opponents are equal opportunity deals which is all that anyone should ask if they're looking for competitive gaming. (Amusingly disingenuous, btw, when you say that Flagritz started the shooting war - by taking out the two scouts whose declared mission was to set up the attack against his own and one captured HW at least). I don't object to you doing whatever the hell you want in the game - no one is forcing me to play after all. I am simply stating that your stated rationale for your actions, if seriously held, never-the-less make little sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfouasnon Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Breoghan , how can you say locally no player can catch up with Worldlab Meyne in tech ? He is in our area , the ship he just built is a newer ship , it has more AP then the first ships which came to the Komka area , true , but if you read what Marcus posted , the new ship just took a few ( 2 ? ) turns to get to the area . The Ori position started March 2006 , and has similar tech to the ship you just saw in the postings...no big deal . I can fly one of my NDN's to Worldlab Meyne in 2-3 turns . That is going to be a similar time that Worldlab Meyne started . Again , alot depends on your race design....a brain in the jar position done right is an awesome researcher .....and in respect to poor troops for such a position , well , you have to be able to first land the troops on the world , which means getting through the warships above the planet before a ground pounder position could even begin to use its advantages in ground warfare . And a brain in the jar position definitely researches ground tech just as fast as any other tech it researches..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ok, I'll step back and see what happens with the Kom Ka, if you manage to take that world back from Flagritz. My points remain valid, but you give the impression you're going to expect him to stand on his own two feet. I can live with that as far as the Kom Ka are concerned. I don't go looking for trouble without reason, but I will say that he is getting back into his original position in the game under false pretenses, and leave it at that. The point about the Kom Ka being taken by the combined fleets of a single player? Slightly shakier ground, I think. Are you saying a player can't do intra-position trading for weapons and equipment? That would be no different than trading with neighbours with approximately similar tech levels (again I'll point out that tech levels are a matter of luck and choice in the broad sense, no two positions have the same in all things) - even focussed research between allies to have one position researching one thing while others do something else, can be found amongst mere allies rather than joint positions of a single player. Saying a player shouldn't use every resource he has when in combat is a little like saying he should only go into a fight after making sure that everything was absolutely equal - whereas in the real world you use stratgems and tactics to wrongfoot and hit the enemy at their weakest point; it's like saying a boxer with more beef than his opponent should tie one hand behind his back, just to be fair..... and no, I don't see that as the same thing as your having come effectively through a time warp to hit Flagritz (you skipped over the bit about you planning to stay in the region - with your tech levels no player locally could 'catch you up', tech-wise). Local opponents are equal opportunity deals which is all that anyone should ask if they're looking for competitive gaming. (Amusingly disingenuous, btw, when you say that Flagritz started the shooting war - by taking out the two scouts whose declared mission was to set up the attack against his own and one captured HW at least). I don't object to you doing whatever the hell you want in the game - no one is forcing me to play after all. I am simply stating that your stated rationale for your actions, if seriously held, never-the-less make little sense to me. Well, I was not saying, that I have not made him to attack my scouts And for catching up: Sure you can catch up, because the tech tree is not open ended but capped out at the tech I have on that ship (at least for weapons and shields). Btw I got Mk IX Force Shields on March 23, 2007, not even 2 years into the game for that position and had Tckon68 way before that. I think that makes all your babble moot. I would have been way ahead even when I would have started within the region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breoghan Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 My "babble" is anything but moot (for the record, I'm reasonably good at seeing beyond the obvious, and through misdirection), but I see little point about dissecting everything that is said down to the last letter, plenty though there is to dissect, to make a point already made. Events will tell all as they unfold. Hey, if I'm right, at least I have a moral victory. If I'm wrong then it's to my benefit - I can't lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Carpenter Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ok, I'll step back and see what happens with the Kom Ka, if you manage to take that world back from Flagritz. My points remain valid, but you give the impression you're going to expect him to stand on his own two feet. I can live with that as far as the Kom Ka are concerned. I don't go looking for trouble without reason, but I will say that he is getting back into his original position in the game under false pretenses, and leave it at that. The point about the Kom Ka being taken by the combined fleets of a single player? Slightly shakier ground, I think. Are you saying a player can't do intra-position trading for weapons and equipment? That would be no different than trading with neighbours with approximately similar tech levels (again I'll point out that tech levels are a matter of luck and choice in the broad sense, no two positions have the same in all things) - even focussed research between allies to have one position researching one thing while others do something else, can be found amongst mere allies rather than joint positions of a single player. Saying a player shouldn't use every resource he has when in combat is a little like saying he should only go into a fight after making sure that everything was absolutely equal - whereas in the real world you use stratgems and tactics to wrongfoot and hit the enemy at their weakest point; it's like saying a boxer with more beef than his opponent should tie one hand behind his back, just to be fair..... and no, I don't see that as the same thing as your having come effectively through a time warp to hit Flagritz (you skipped over the bit about you planning to stay in the region - with your tech levels no player locally could 'catch you up', tech-wise). Local opponents are equal opportunity deals which is all that anyone should ask if they're looking for competitive gaming. (Amusingly disingenuous, btw, when you say that Flagritz started the shooting war - by taking out the two scouts whose declared mission was to set up the attack against his own and one captured HW at least). I don't object to you doing whatever the hell you want in the game - no one is forcing me to play after all. I am simply stating that your stated rationale for your actions, if seriously held, never-the-less make little sense to me. Well, I was not saying, that I have not made him to attack my scouts And for catching up: Sure you can catch up, because the tech tree is not open ended but capped out at the tech I have on that ship (at least for weapons and shields). Btw I got Mk IX Force Shields on March 23, 2007, not even 2 years into the game for that position and had Tckon68 way before that. I think that makes all your babble moot. I would have been way ahead even when I would have started within the region. One thing you are not taking into account is NEW players vrs long time players and knowing the tech path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Breoghan , how can you say locally no player can catch up with Worldlab Meyne in tech ? He is in our area , the ship he just built is a newer ship , it has more AP then the first ships which came to the Komka area , true , but if you read what Marcus posted , the new ship just took a few ( 2 ? ) turns to get to the area . The Ori position started March 2006 , and has similar tech to the ship you just saw in the postings...no big deal . I can fly one of my NDN's to Worldlab Meyne in 2-3 turns . That is going to be a similar time that Worldlab Meyne started . Again , alot depends on your race design....a brain in the jar position done right is an awesome researcher .....and in respect to poor troops for such a position , well , you have to be able to first land the troops on the world , which means getting through the warships above the planet before a ground pounder position could even begin to use its advantages in ground warfare . And a brain in the jar position definitely researches ground tech just as fast as any other tech it researches..... Speaking as someone else in the local area, I would say the Worldlab's main advantage is he has had a bit longer to develop his economy. Tech is nice, but you have to be able to build stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Breoghan , how can you say locally no player can catch up with Worldlab Meyne in tech ? He is in our area , the ship he just built is a newer ship , it has more AP then the first ships which came to the Komka area , true , but if you read what Marcus posted , the new ship just took a few ( 2 ? ) turns to get to the area . The Ori position started March 2006 , and has similar tech to the ship you just saw in the postings...no big deal . I can fly one of my NDN's to Worldlab Meyne in 2-3 turns . That is going to be a similar time that Worldlab Meyne started . Again , alot depends on your race design....a brain in the jar position done right is an awesome researcher .....and in respect to poor troops for such a position , well , you have to be able to first land the troops on the world , which means getting through the warships above the planet before a ground pounder position could even begin to use its advantages in ground warfare . And a brain in the jar position definitely researches ground tech just as fast as any other tech it researches..... Speaking as someone else in the local area, I would say the Worldlab's main advantage is he has had a bit longer to develop his economy. Tech is nice, but you have to be able to build stuff. Correct, though I found two more dropped HWs on my way to the region One was a redirect (not sure if intended) me to a well defended drop (1000 screens and a War Cruiser) behind them behind a Warp Point. But my BC scout was handling them on a rather close fight. So it it was intended, it pretty much backfired, so if so, I hold no grudge @Gary: Come on, the tech path for Mk IX Force Shields isn't that hard. And I found the path to one of the "Big Guns" all by myself. But the alliance I am in gave me pointers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soerenjev Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Level playing field means same opportunities, not matching technology I am given to understand that Cestvel has no intention of being an aggressor in the region, just a defensive ally of the Kom Ka? That's all well and good and sounds perfectly reasonable (ignoring the fact that this effectively gives the Kom Ka a skirt to hide behind if any of his forays into local space come unstuck). Who ever guaranteed a level playing field ? If you are overpowered do the same as the KomKa, get allies. I thought wargaming was about matching wits and fortune, not squashing opponents that haven't a hope in hell of providing competition. If an player can run as much positions as he wants, this is not true, as about 30 years experience with PBM and PBEM tought me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Breoghan , how can you say locally no player can catch up with Worldlab Meyne in tech ? He is in our area , the ship he just built is a newer ship , it has more AP then the first ships which came to the Komka area , true , but if you read what Marcus posted , the new ship just took a few ( 2 ? ) turns to get to the area . The Ori position started March 2006 , and has similar tech to the ship you just saw in the postings...no big deal . I can fly one of my NDN's to Worldlab Meyne in 2-3 turns . That is going to be a similar time that Worldlab Meyne started . Again , alot depends on your race design....a brain in the jar position done right is an awesome researcher .....and in respect to poor troops for such a position , well , you have to be able to first land the troops on the world , which means getting through the warships above the planet before a ground pounder position could even begin to use its advantages in ground warfare . And a brain in the jar position definitely researches ground tech just as fast as any other tech it researches..... Speaking as someone else in the local area, I would say the Worldlab's main advantage is he has had a bit longer to develop his economy. Tech is nice, but you have to be able to build stuff. Correct, though I found two more dropped HWs on my way to the region One was a redirect (not sure if intended) me to a well defended drop (1000 screens and a War Cruiser) behind them behind a Warp Point. But my BC scout was handling them on a rather close fight. So it it was intended, it pretty much backfired, so if so, I hold no grudge @Gary: Come on, the tech path for Mk IX Force Shields isn't that hard. And I found the path to one of the "Big Guns" all by myself. But the alliance I am in gave me pointers You found two drops along the way? Then you don't really need the Flagritz world, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Level playing field means same opportunities, not matching technology I am given to understand that Cestvel has no intention of being an aggressor in the region, just a defensive ally of the Kom Ka? That's all well and good and sounds perfectly reasonable (ignoring the fact that this effectively gives the Kom Ka a skirt to hide behind if any of his forays into local space come unstuck). Who ever guaranteed a level playing field ? If you are overpowered do the same as the KomKa, get allies. I thought wargaming was about matching wits and fortune, not squashing opponents that haven't a hope in hell of providing competition. If an player can run as much positions as he wants, this is not true, as about 30 years experience with PBM and PBEM tought me. This is an open-ended game. By its nature, some players are going to be stronger than others. I don't have a problem with that, but then again, I'm not being attacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 You found two drops along the way? Then you don't really need the Flagritz world, do you? One can never have enough And I try to prepare for the bigger fish that is after me now You know, there is always a bigger Lock... erm, fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Carpenter Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Breoghan , how can you say locally no player can catch up with Worldlab Meyne in tech ? He is in our area , the ship he just built is a newer ship , it has more AP then the first ships which came to the Komka area , true , but if you read what Marcus posted , the new ship just took a few ( 2 ? ) turns to get to the area . The Ori position started March 2006 , and has similar tech to the ship you just saw in the postings...no big deal . I can fly one of my NDN's to Worldlab Meyne in 2-3 turns . That is going to be a similar time that Worldlab Meyne started . Again , alot depends on your race design....a brain in the jar position done right is an awesome researcher .....and in respect to poor troops for such a position , well , you have to be able to first land the troops on the world , which means getting through the warships above the planet before a ground pounder position could even begin to use its advantages in ground warfare . And a brain in the jar position definitely researches ground tech just as fast as any other tech it researches..... Speaking as someone else in the local area, I would say the Worldlab's main advantage is he has had a bit longer to develop his economy. Tech is nice, but you have to be able to build stuff. Correct, though I found two more dropped HWs on my way to the region One was a redirect (not sure if intended) me to a well defended drop (1000 screens and a War Cruiser) behind them behind a Warp Point. But my BC scout was handling them on a rather close fight. So it it was intended, it pretty much backfired, so if so, I hold no grudge @Gary: Come on, the tech path for Mk IX Force Shields isn't that hard. And I found the path to one of the "Big Guns" all by myself. But the alliance I am in gave me pointers the starbore was not found by most empires until last year, 6 years in game time. I will post it if everyone really already knows how to get too it what say you newbies, want to know how to get best weapon in game so far? OR do you already know? I have newer and older empires, and the new ones catch up to the older ones very fast, because I know the tech paths, and that is a real advantage if I started a new empire today, with my current data on tech trees I could be the main guy in a newbie area, especially against anyone with no older empire and no knowledge of the tech tree, like how to get deep cores, 6 gen ind, adv strip mines, cloaking, flag bridges, Cybernetic holos, and starbore for example. To deny this is silly and very black hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Check the battles between the KomKa and Flagritz. *Both* sprouted Mk I Holographic Battle Directors from EXPL/neutral finds. My youngest found a Flag Bridge as our alliance just knew one turn of the Flag Bridge from another Flag Bridge find. Pete seems to "help" the younger ones a bit with this kind of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagritz Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 the starbore was not found by most empires until last year, 6 years in game time.I will post it if everyone really already knows how to get too it what say you newbies, want to know how to get best weapon in game so far? OR do you already know? I have newer and older empires, and the new ones catch up to the older ones very fast, because I know the tech paths, and that is a real advantage if I started a new empire today, with my current data on tech trees I could be the main guy in a newbie area, especially against anyone with no older empire and no knowledge of the tech tree, like how to get deep cores, 6 gen ind, adv strip mines, cloaking, flag bridges, Cybernetic holos, and starbore for example. To deny this is silly and very black hat. As a player who wasted a vast amount of research on Sensors, labs, universal translators, Jump engines, weapon types that sounded cool but capped off early, every resource type (just incase), horizon tech that is still to produce any great results & installations for colonys which you dont need once ICE is discovered...... I would love to know how to get the starbore weapons path! :} As for the other posts, I promised my allies I would let it be so I will not respond to everything :} However (oh no..... dont write anymore!! I do agree with one point that is made, this is a wargame, anyone can attack anyone for whatever reason they chose. Cestval has every right to attack me and take as many homeworlds as he is capable of doing from me, I have no problem with that. However I do object when an act of aggression is painted as some noble and good deed. I am no saint, check back on this forum, I encountered an empire, I couldn't set-up a dialogue, he built warships and attacked my scouts I built ships and I attacked his world. I never thought for a moment I would win in my first battles and I never boasted about it. If you look back on this thread, I thanked the Kom Ka for being a worthy adversary, I tried to share my experiences of the war, both to enlighten people and to show how close a fight it was. Never once has the Kom Ka player ever contacted me other then in the IC mumble jumble that appears on this thread and tried to open a dialogue or discuss the war, his homewrold etc. I know he deals with other players normally as they have told me hes actually a really good player. However I lose my point, I do not wish to justify my war (okay maybe a little), however I object to players justifying clear acts of aggression and muscle flexing as anything more noble then an act of aggression and muscle flexing. Okay, Ive said my piece, from now on Im going to let my in game actions show the kind of player I am :] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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