General Miles Avatar Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 You are assuming of course that the enemy you are fighting doesnt have fighters? What if he does ? Does it become one big carrier duel? yeah those carriers and fighers will absoulutely crush an enemy fleet not prepared to handle them but if they have a fighter swarm of thier own then we are back to square 1. with the advent of working spies you can determine the best weapon to use against a particular race and thats one aspect of the game I really enjoy. Anyone for Space Chess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krelnett_of_Kraan Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Knight jumps Queen. Pawn jumps Queen! Bishop jumps Queen? G***-B***!!!! It's good to be the King. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhaseDragon Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hate to say it but WKE235 is right. There is another strategy which may be usable. Create giant slugs of steel loaded with Plasma Torpedoes, heavily armored to absorb lots of hits in deploy location 1. With a high enough fire control you could wipe out a fleet in one round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakarissa Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 The counter for that one, aside from Black Sphere Generators, is the sheer cost of creating those beasts. The Type A Plasma Torpedoes weight in at an impressive 10,000 tons apiece. Creating any kind of numbers of those will take a serious amount of IC to create. My best empire only has 160 Million IC to play with. Even at that number, it would take a long time to get enough up to create a plasma torpedo armored slug battle line. Not to mention putting enough bridge components on those things to make them effective. It all comes down to a tradeoff. There are a lot of different ways to create a devastating fleet. And there is always at least one way to counter that very same fleet. The big fleet battle ought to be interesting. Not that I have ever contemplated making a warship........ Sakarissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Knight jumps Queen. Pawn jumps Queen! Bishop jumps Queen? G***-B***!!!! It's good to be the King. Checkmate. Guess its not so good to be the King either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 FYI The Battleship Vindicator was rated with Medium Damage after the NSI Warp Point battle. Two turns later, in a battle with around 15 NSI Corvettes (3000 tons each), the ship was listed with Light Damage Now, the very next turn, the Big V and escorts destroy 3 NSI Corvettes, and the ships is listed with Medium Damage. Huh?? Lets see .. the Corvettes have Missle and Plasma adding to just under 2000. (Missile: 800, Plasma: 1,056 -- 4 Light Thermal Lance and 4 Mk I Standard Missle). The Big V has Shields of 2,000,000+ when fully operational. Hmmmm ... I do not thing the Corvettes could have damaged the Big V. Anyway, the NSI ships did Minor damage to two of my escort Corvettes and destroyed a junker ship. Since they could only fire on one ship per round, same as me (and the Big V's weapons took out a Corvette likely each round), that means three rounds of battle. Since they damaged two ships and destroyed a third = 3 ships, they did not fire on the Big V. Quite simply, there was nothing to increase damage on the Big V. So the big question is -- WHY was the ship listed as Light last turn, and Medium now? (1) Were the engineers holding another Texas Chili cook-off and things got out of hand leading to a few decks blasting into space? (2) Since the code keeps changing, maybe the calculation or percentages of Light and Medium have changed over the three turns? (3) Maybe Pete being creative has added a Random Element into all Damage reports (say, if damaged then reported damage = damage +/- x%). (4) Maybe Pete being creative has added code so damaged parts of a ship can try to fight, with a risk of backfires / explosions of the damaged equipment .. something that will damage the ship? Anyway .. I will err on the side of caution and say the damage is medium. So three turns of self-repair and no noticed change in status to the ship for those tracking (at least no change until another turn goes by with more code changes ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Actually ... the above account points out one way to defeat the enemy in warp point battles where they have Junker screens. Lets say I've scouted a WP (send in a minor ship) and the enemy has 30 1Kton ships in Deploy Location 1, and 4 Heavy Cruisers in Deploy Location 6. On turn action 1, I would send through the Warp Point say 20-30 corvettes, ships in the 3 Kton range with weapons and perhaps some advanced computer gear so each ship will get to fire 2 or 3 globs of damage. Very easy to accomplish with such a small ship and still have real decent firepower (as things advance). So the Corvettes stream into the system one ship at a time, and they get to fire in one round of battle, before being blasted to atoms (at least I assume they get to fire in one round ... another thread is discussing this and whether there is a delay). They end up targetting and (if strong enough firepower wise) destroying most to all of the screen ships. On turn action 2, the main fleet of big ships jumps in, and now is free to target mostly on the big capital ships (since the junker screen is gone). Victory. Thoughts? One possible drawback is defenses. A 1000 ton ship could have 700 armor points, maybe more. Using Selenite Battle Weave, that's a 14,000 + 1000 = 15,000 integrity (hit point) screen ship. I think the 3000 ton corvette on your side had better have *good* class weapons in this case, to ensure enough firepower so they can destroy at least one Junker. A trade off, inessence. Another is the assumption is the ship exiting a WP is able to fire at least once before it is annihilated. If this is not true, sending the ships through in this manner will not work. Not unless you can group them into small enough warp bubbles so 3 or so at a time go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 WKE - Yes! This is the main reason we have become re-enthused after finally being able to get to grips with the Bridge/targetting equation. Whether to shoot at one ship or many, whether to provide 'junker' targets, or things that might survive a hit if there's too much Fire Control and firepower is spread too thinly. Whether to phase attacks, or come in all at once. The Fire Control mechanism is elegant in it's simplicity and most definitely not entirely logical - from a purely fire control perspective. BUT, it gives us so many choices that we can never arrive at a single battle winning tactic that cannot be countered in some way or other by another empire. What we have is a mechanism that, unless completely unprepared, gives every empire a chance to survive first encounters with an aggressive race - something that was a major downer in SN2. And, even more essentially, time to do something about it. Even a HW directly under attack might well have time to produce an entire fleet of targets and just one, or two, decent ships behind them to confound an enemy advance. The one point in your example above is that, in order to be able to bring along your own fleet of 'junkers' to provide a counter to his, they'll be moving awfully slowly. Moving large fleets of non-NTWD equipped ships is okay for a defender near his HW, but not at serious inter-galactic distance....... Certainly, we don't really see NTWD equipped ships as 'junkers' just yet...... Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Ah ha! Forgot to add.... Pretty sure there's enough evidence to guarantee that a ship that has just WARP'd in does indeed get a chance to get one shot off before it can be destroyed...... If this isn't supposed to be the case, then something is awry.... Given all the above, we feel that this is part of the overall tactical options... Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krelnett_of_Kraan Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Certainly, we don't really see NTWD equipped ships as 'junkers' just yet...... We could, though. Each one only costs 14.275 Mtons of industry. We could build 11 per turn if we wanted to devote our entire industry to such a thing, and our empire has only been in the game for a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 1) Were the engineers holding another Texas Chili cook-off and things got out of hand leading to a few decks blasting into space? I definitely think this is the answer WKE if your race has Gas Explusion as a racial characteristic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Certainly, we don't really see NTWD equipped ships as 'junkers' just yet...... We could, though. Each one only costs 14.275 Mtons of industry. We could build 11 per turn if we wanted to devote our entire industry to such a thing, and our empire has only been in the game for a year. :lol: Not intending to get into that silly argument again, but whichever way you look at it, NTWD equipped ships are not cheap! Yes, you could produce 10 NTWD ships that were nothing but the TWD, a manoevre engine and some fuel tankage to get it somewhere and that would provide a target to get in the way of someone's fire. However, I'm not so sure that you'd think it worth it if, in every round of fire, someone took out 30 or 40 of them with a ship that took a lot less than G$150M to build....... A war of attrition would be extremely expensive and not be sustainable even next to your HW....... Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 I'd like to delve a little deeper into the damage report thingy WKE? Did you get an explanation why your ship varied from Light to Medium damage from Pete? Secondly I would like to know if Morale and Experience are on a fleet level. Ie are the mystical modifiers for morale and experience added to just that ships part of the gob of firepower damage and defensive CIDS or is it calculated on a fleet level? /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuth Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 The big fleet battle ought to be interesting. Not that I have ever contemplated making a warship........ Yeah right. And I'm your fairy godmother. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakarissa Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Quote Yeah right. And I'm your fairy godmother. Unquote Nah, couldn't be. You're not nearly Evil enough. Sorry. Sakarissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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